We're hearing lots. We did a fairly intensive survey to prepare for the payments task force. One of the smartest things that's happened is when Minister Flaherty put together that group to look at the future of the payments industry as a whole. It was very timely. But you're quite right, the time is ticking very quickly and we need to start making some decisions as to how this is going to happen.
My members are regulated to the point that if they offer a cup of coffee to their customers, they have to pass through a whole bunch of government inspectors—and yet there's this huge section of the economy in the payments industry has had virtually no regulation. It's effectively been the wild west.
We have promoted and have seen a voluntary code of conduct adopted, which we feel is working. There are flexibilities within that code to make mobile payments work, but we do need to move quickly.
The payments task force is looking at this. We're part of it, so we're at the table. They've been taking the views of small and medium-sized businesses seriously.
The point that has been made with some of the provisions of the code of conduct that disallow the idea of co-badging—that of having, say, an Interac capacity and a VISA or MasterCard debit capacity on the same card, or perhaps even a PayPal initiative along those lines—is whether that means, if it's applied to the mobile payment technology, that you have to carry four cellphones with one type of payment on each.
Those kind of things can be resolved. There are infrastructure changes that can be made to comply with the code of conduct and still allow the adoption of mobile technologies. But you're quite right that many small businesses are afraid of this because they've seen the abuse that VISA and MasterCard have imposed on small and medium-sized firms over the last number of years.
We're very open to and interested in how this is all going to roll out. We think it is possible. The code is our best defence. We need to make sure that the code continues to be a living document to make that happen.