Industry Committee on Nov. 29th, 2012

[Gary Goodyear, Conservative, Cambridge, ON]

I don't read Statistics Canada. I look at my budget

[Kennedy Stewart, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

You don't read Statistics Canada and you're the science minister?

Okay.

Maybe I'll go to my next question, then. On page 95, the estimates deal with the NRC. You say that you envision the NRC as a 1-800 number concierge service for industry.

John McDougall has been before this committee. He said that he's busy restructuring. I'm just wondering if you provided any instructions to Mr. McDougall for this restructuring, and if you could table these if you provided anything specific. Or are you just letting him kind of run wild within the NRC?

[Gary Goodyear, Conservative, Cambridge, ON]

The NRC, as we've stated in public, is being transformed into a research technology organization and will include—

[Kennedy Stewart, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Do you have—

[Gary Goodyear, Conservative, Cambridge, ON]

If I can finish...?

[Kennedy Stewart, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Yes, sure.

[Gary Goodyear, Conservative, Cambridge, ON]

It will include a concierge service, which I've described as a 1-800 number. The reason we did that was that one of the largest reasons that businesses don't use the very generous programs put forward by the federal government is that mostly they don't know about them.

It seemed to us, after consultation with industry and many other stakeholders, that one of the answers to this problem—one of the answers—was to have a source that businesses could call up to explain what their needs were and then be directed to an appropriate program. That answers the concierge question.

The other point that I think you probably do know is that Canada is very strong in basic research, and we're very proud of that.

[Kennedy Stewart, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Although you're cutting your funding.

[Gary Goodyear, Conservative, Cambridge, ON]

We—

[Kennedy Stewart, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

I'm asking specifically about written directions to the new director of the NRC and whether you could table those for us, because right now there's nothing written down that we point to, to see this major restructuring of the crown jewel, really, of Canadian science...it's being restructured without any public knowledge of what's going on.

For example, Mr. McDougall said that they're going to be cutting a lot of scientific positions and replacing those positions with business managers. I would like to know, for example, how many scientists are going to be replaced with business managers, and I think the Canadian public would want to know. So I'm wondering if you have written instructions for the new president, and whether you could table those here.

[Gary Goodyear, Conservative, Cambridge, ON]

Well, what I have said to you before and what I have said in Parliament and the media is that we are in fact undergoing some transformation at the NRC to a business/industry-facing organization. So that does mean that while we have a number—thousands, actually—of scientists and great resources at the National Research Council who already do significant business-facing research, we will ask the National Research Council to be more responsive to industry.

We want to do that because we know from statistics that over 90% of our businesses in Canada have less than 50 employees, which means that many of them do not have research capacity—

[Kennedy Stewart, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

But you're refusing to table a public document.

[Gary Goodyear, Conservative, Cambridge, ON]

If you'd let me answer the question, I'd be happy to—

[Kennedy Stewart, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Well, you're going in generalities. I'm asking for specifics.

[Gary Goodyear, Conservative, Cambridge, ON]

Well, if you want the information—

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Order.

Gentlemen, we're televised, and when both of you speak like that, they are confused about where to put the camera, and the audio has a problem as well.

[Kennedy Stewart, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Okay.

[Gary Goodyear, Conservative, Cambridge, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

So one of the things we need to do is match up that deficiency with the resources at the National Research Council. That is to allow businesses in Canada to recognize that we do in fact have research capacity for them, not only in our universities and colleges, but also at this National Research Council.

I have nothing to table for you—

[Kennedy Stewart, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Are you in charge, though, or is Mr. McDougall in charge? If you're in charge, could you table something so that we can read what the restructuring plan is? Because right now there are only quotes out of the media, and we'd like to see something more substantive.

[Gary Goodyear, Conservative, Cambridge, ON]

I'm quite sensitive to the need for you to see something more substantive, since there has been a history of misquoting and taking the words that I've said out of context. What I can tell you is that this process is ongoing right now, and in due course, we will be more than happy to share with you the outcomes of this transformative process.

[Kennedy Stewart, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

But people are being laid off right now, so you're going to come up with a plan later and lay off people now? So there is no plan now...? You're just kind of letting Mr. McDougall do whatever he likes.

[Gary Goodyear, Conservative, Cambridge, ON]

Once again, you're putting words in my mouth.

[Kennedy Stewart, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Well, I'm asking you to answer the question and table the document.

[Gary Goodyear, Conservative, Cambridge, ON]

I answered the question.

We are transforming the National Research Council. There have been some changes that are not necessarily or directly related to the transformation process. There were some full-time equivalent positions lost as a result of reductions. We made a commitment to Canadians to find efficiencies with the NRC. There are some organizations with the NRC that we now see are better served in the public space, or, I should say, in the private space by industry. This is not unusual for the National Research Council. They have a history of spinning off companies quite successfully.

So the natural process is that there will be a fluid and constantly changing enterprise here. That is good. We don't believe in stagnation. We believe that the economies of the world have changed. The needs of industry have changed. Technology has changed. The pace of technological advancement has changed. In the best interests of Canadians, we will make sure that we can change to continue the growth in our economy and the strength and the protection of families, businesses, and their resources.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you, Minister.

That's all the time we have there.

Mr. McColeman, please, for seven minutes.