Evidence of meeting #62 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rural.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
Glenn Thibeault NDP Sudbury, ON
Okay. Thank you.
Mr. Lord spoke a lot about the wireless code of conduct. Would CWTA be in favour of administrative monetary penalties to ensure that this code has some regulatory teeth if the telecom companies were to be breaching? Not that they would intentionally, but if something was happening, would that be something your organization would look at?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Wireless Telecommunications Association
We don't think that's necessary. We are the advocates of the code. Keep in mind, the reason the CRTC held this hearing is because we asked for it. We are the ones who petitioned the CRTC to step in.
With the process that would be in place, we don't think at first that is necessary. The idea is to have a code that is the same across the country so that consumers across the country know what to expect from the carriers and carriers can live up to the same standards from coast to coast.
NDP
Glenn Thibeault NDP Sudbury, ON
If the telecom companies, for one reason or another, don't live up to the code, what's in it for the consumer, then?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Wireless Telecommunications Association
What's in it for the consumer is the consumer can file a complaint—as they can now, but the national code will make it easier and clearer for them—with the Commissioner for Complaints for Telecommunications Services, which is under the arm of the CRTC, and the CCTS can decide what actions a carrier has to take to remedy the situation, and that's there. If the same carrier has the same problem over and over again, there are other measures the CRTC can take. The law, as it stands now, has everything we need to do it. What we need is the code to administer it.
NDP
Glenn Thibeault NDP Sudbury, ON
I've been hearing from some of the consumer groups from province to province that are in agreement that they would like to see a national code. But they've said they would like to see it encompass many of the regulations that have happened in Quebec, in Ontario, and in Manitoba, because they've been brought forward, but there hasn't been this wireless code in the past. Is that something your members would be in agreement with?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Wireless Telecommunications Association
Simply put, we completely agree. We completely agree on that point, and that's the proposition we put forward to the CRTC.
In our voluntary code that we established three years ago, there were some things that were not included in there because legally we could not deal with it as a trade association. It would have been against the Competition Act. We could not talk about early termination fees among ourselves; you can't do that. But once there's a process in place, started by the CRTC or a provincial government, then those conversations happen.
The key thing is that we're not asking the CRTC to water down any code that exists now; we're asking them to take the highest standard and apply it across the country. In simple words, that's what we are proposing. We feel that having different rules from province to province only adds costs that are passed on to consumers. Let's have one set of rules. This is the bar; let's have that bar across the country.
NDP
Glenn Thibeault NDP Sudbury, ON
I have 12 seconds.
You mentioned very briefly that you're looking at health care using smart phones. You need to look at a company called Carenet in Sudbury. They already have it established. They do great work. They sold it and are working with the Province of New Brunswick on it already.
Thank you for the 12-second plug.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Sweet
We should do commercials, actually. That's very good.
Mr. Braid, now, for five minutes.
Conservative
Peter Braid Conservative Kitchener—Waterloo, ON
Thank you very much.
Mr. Warawa spoke so eloquently about BlackBerry being the champion of Canadian technology in this country, I don't need to today.
Conservative
Peter Braid Conservative Kitchener—Waterloo, ON
I could again, and perhaps I just did.
Mr. Lord, you made reference to long-term evolution, or LTE, and I think you suggested that Canada currently has a leadership position, if you will, in terms of our deployment of LTE. Why is that?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Wireless Telecommunications Association
I would say there are two main reasons for that. I want to make sure we're clear. We are deploying LTE currently in Canada. It doesn't cover the 99% population that has access to 3G, but that is coming.
There are two reasons for that. We have savvy consumers in Canada. Canadians love their wireless devices, and they want faster and better service. We have carriers and investors who are willing to make the investment.
Overall, we have an economic situation in Canada that enables us to do that. When you factor in those three things—the individuals, the private sector, and the environment, and the government policies that enable that—we want to make sure we can continue. We don't want to be held back because we run out of spectrum and there's too much demand for the spectrum that is available.
Conservative
Peter Braid Conservative Kitchener—Waterloo, ON
That's a good segue to my next question.
In one of your recommendations you talked about the importance of the government considering the release of a spectrum plan. I presume that's beyond the 700 megahertz. Could you just educate us a little bit on what is beyond the 700-megahertz spectrum? What other areas of spectrum are there, and what might this plan look like?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Wireless Telecommunications Association
There is a table that we'll provide to the committee.
I want to give credit to the officials in the government, and the government, because that work has started. I don't want to give the impression that we're starting with a blank page. That work has started, and it's essential.
My voice today is to lend support to accelerate that work. Let's not wait until the auction is over before we plan the next step. We already know we will need next steps.
I've heard today from Mr. Lenehan that we don't necessarily disagree on these things. As I like to say when people ask me about the position of the CWTA on spectrum auctions and the rules, well, some of our members like certain rules, other members like other rules, and we like all our members. That's your job, in the end.
What we agree on, and what all our members agree on, is that we need more spectrum and it should be auctioned off. How the auction is structured depends on the policy goals you want to meet.
Conservative
Peter Braid Conservative Kitchener—Waterloo, ON
There's been some discussion, and I'm curious about this. If there's time, we'll go to Xplornet to elaborate on this.
But first I want to send this to you, Mr. Lord. We've had a discussion today about the role of government. I certainly agree that government has an important role to play. You mentioned areas of the country “where it's not economically feasible”. Government has a role to play in helping to facilitate that.
Could you better define what areas of the country perhaps may not be “economically feasible”?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Wireless Telecommunications Association
It really depends if we're talking about mobile wireless or fixed wireless. I've had this conversation with a predecessor at Xplornet. There are solutions out there where there may be no need for government subsidies or government intervention.
We're not here advocating for government subsidies or government interventions. We're saying that through the resources that are being paid to the government for access to spectrum, it provides you with a pool of money that you can use for the digital economy, if you want. There are places where the concentration, the density, is not there. To ask the private sector to deploy the same comparable service that you'll find in an urban setting is just not economically feasible, not when you're looking at mobile wireless.
Executive Vice-President, General Counsel, Xplornet Communications Inc.
Could we respond to that?
Executive Vice-President, General Counsel, Xplornet Communications Inc.
If you'll forgive me, this is a bit of a definition of insanity. The government has generously offered money on more than one occasion to try to ensure rural deployment in areas that are not economic. We could go back and look at the deferral accounts, where over $300 million was allocated through that process and hasn't resulted in appropriate deployment. We could talk about the $225 million for broadband in Canada. We could talk about the provincial programs. There has been lots of money.
We can tell you that every single location in Canada is economically feasible because we serve every single location in Canada. We're quite happy to do so; we can raise money to do so.
What we're politely saying is, please don't take that money from the spectrum auction and say we're going to help in the uneconomic areas. All you're doing is distorting the market and not solving the problem.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Wireless Telecommunications Association
I want to be very clear. That's the difference between fixed wireless—where you're providing service to a home or a business—and mobile wireless. I'm not suggesting you should subsidize fixed wireless. I'm saying there are different technologies out there, and that has to be considered.
Thank you.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Sweet
We've completed the second round. We're going on to a third round now, starting with Mr. Carmichael for five minutes.
Conservative
John Carmichael Conservative Don Valley West, ON
Thank you, Chair.
This is an interesting discussion.
Mr. Lord, as we started today, you pulled out your device, and you talked about a phone being secondary and about all of the different services that are available on it. We've heard all kinds of plugs for the one manufacturer, which I support as well. But at the end of the day, as we sit here today, I wonder if we could just look ahead a bit. We've talked about spectrum, and we've talked about additional spectrum. What's coming down the road? What do the next couple of years look like in terms of the technologies? I'm not so much talking about the device technologies but about your challenges, both in wireless and at Xplornet, that we should be aware of.
Ms. Prudham, your comment on subsidizing urban areas was an interesting one. I hadn't heard that in any of our deliberations or from any of our witnesses that I am aware of.
Executive Vice-President, General Counsel, Xplornet Communications Inc.
I'm sorry, are you saying urban? I wasn't suggesting—
Conservative
John Carmichael Conservative Don Valley West, ON
Sorry, I mean rural. That was interesting. I just wonder if you can give us a bit of a picture of where your challenges, that we should be aware of, are coming from so that we can help you with that.
Would anybody like to answer?