Evidence of meeting #9 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 41st Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was technology.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Sweet
That'll be the end of that round.
Now we'll go to Mrs. Gallant for five minutes.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to our witnesses.
I'd like you to tell me how government, with all its redundancies, could save Canadian taxpayers money.
For example, we have the CRA, which has relatively current data--the name, address, SIN, etc.--on everyone. Then we have a person who applies to EI and goes to a kiosk, or maybe even to a human being, and inputs all of the information that the government already has. Then years later, that same person, who is a veteran, goes to apply for benefits, and yet another government employee must input that same information that the government already has somewhere.
Is there a way to utilize this cloud technology in such a way that the information that has to stay segregated from department to department can stay segregated, but that the information that we have to re-input time after time can be shared across the board?
National Technology Officer, Microsoft Canada Co.
The cloud is transformative not only in its approach to delivering services but also in its ability to reimagine how services are delivered. That means that as software developers, you can now locate the information in the appropriate location, where it can be safeguarded accordingly for privacy or security, or even from a compliance perspective. So you can serve up the fancy graphics, perhaps, from a public cloud service, because everyone is comfortable with having that video showing Parliament Hill, with the flag waving, and with being served from a server that is closest to the constituent. They want to rely upon the departmental safeguards that are there to control those services.
Certainly, we've seen some great initiatives being started in the federal government around consolidating services and shared services, with a monumental approach to bringing together departments. There are 44 departments and agencies looking at sharing services such as e-mail, data centres, and having that consistent approach to network services. We see those starts happening as departments and agencies look at breaking down those cylinders of excellence, looking at where there are common services across the board and being able to deliver the services that Canadians expect.
It's interesting that when you start to look at some of those scenarios you mentioned, there are things that Canadians can take advantage of when you look across different business lines. For example, it seems deceivingly easy to have one common name and address. When you think of someone who's moving, changing jobs, or relocating, you have a forwarding address—or perhaps a snowbird is off to another region.
Not all programs or services accommodate all of those different idiosyncrasies. The trick is to combine those services where it makes sense, and then add that value on a per service basis.
Director, Government Programs, IBM Canada
Similarly, just as John spoke to the value of the cloud and the consolidation of various operations and so on, I want to speak briefly about the theme I launched, which is the better use of information. Government is awash in information. It has to be used correctly, appropriately, and so on. To the extent that there can be, there are opportunities for tremendous savings. The State of New York, for example, in the last five years has saved close to a billion dollars just by understanding the full extent to which tax returns should, or should not, go out and in what amount, and by reducing duplication and so on. Examples abound of the ability to use information more effectively and to save money as a result.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Wireless Telecommunications Association
Thank you.
I just want to add that the simple answer to your question is obviously yes. There are many ways to do that. There are also some specific programs that are redundant. When it comes to the wireless carriers in Canada, there is a 2% requirement, in terms of investments in R and D, when it's obvious that the carriers invest far more than 2%. We are now the only country in the world that has kept this requirement. It forces carriers to fill out government documents and have government officials make sure there is 2% being invested, when we know far more than 2% is being invested.
That program could be scrapped. The investments would continue, and the government would save money. This is one very specific example of redundancy that could be eliminated tomorrow. No one would know, except it would save the taxpayers money.
Partner, Advisory Management Consulting, KPMG Canada
This is certainly a subject near and dear to my heart.
The way I would respond to it is, as Mr. Weigelt was saying, with consolidation of a lot of the technologies to enable the cloud and to have government, through Shared Services Canada, state that it is going to do this, as it recently announced. That is really critical, because once you put things together, you begin to see the opportunities to leverage things and to remove redundancies.
The same thing would be true on the side of service to Canadians. For many years, we have been a leader in providing service to Canadians as a government overall. The challenge, really, is that the organizations still operate separately and provide great services in and of themselves, but not collectively. There is a tremendous opportunity, if we put it together, to break those barriers down.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Sweet
Thank you, Mr. Cochrane.
We will now go to Mr. Masse for five minutes.
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Lord, we've heard testimony at this committee that we're about two years behind the United States in terms of the spectrum auction. I want your comments regarding that, along with anyone else's on the panel.
How do we catch up? Can we catch up? What consequences do we face if we don't catch up? What will this mean for businesses that will have deficient provision of these services compared to that of their competitors south of the border?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Wireless Telecommunications Association
Spectrum is essential for future e-commerce. Everyone has spoken today about how commerce is becoming mobile commerce, and for that you need the spectrum. The networks will not function without more spectrum, and will not function without more sites, so we need both.
It is true that the U.S. has already auctioned off some bandwidth, which will be probably also be auctioned off in Canada next year. The industry is happy that's happening over the next 12 to 18 months. But beyond that, the most critical thing that the government could do in terms of spectrum over the next decade would be to lay out a plan of when spectrum will be released and how it will be released.
Our association's members are entirely in favour of auctions. They have no problem with auctions. But it's knowing when these will happen, because these networks require billion-dollar investments for renewal, for upkeep, and for growth. Being able to plan that ahead of time, more than six months or twelve months ahead of time, would be very helpful. And it's about knowing when the spectrum will be released Then they can plan the networks accordingly. So that would be critical.
Yes, the U.S. released some spectrum before Canada. Okay, it's going to be auctioned off most likely next year in Canada. But beyond that we don't know when the next wave of spectrum will be released.
The FCC in the U.S. has identified, as an objective, finding an extra 400 to 500 megahertz to be released through auctions. We think Canada will have to do the same. So let's lay out a plan.
National Technology Officer, Microsoft Canada Co.
I would agree that spectrum is a valuable commodity, and I would ask that as you look at that valuable commodity that's out there to realize that there are some advantages to having a set-aside for perhaps a small amount of unlicensed area, as well to allow for innovation. Certainly from a public safety perspective, having the availability for public safety communications interoperability is an important aspect of this as we look at critical infrastructure resilience. But I'd also look at some of the innovation that's happening around white spaces and think of those next generation radios, the intelligent radios, that are able to use spectrum in a very smart way and reach out to different communities. And I'd look to opportunities to explore those regions for that next wave of innovation here in Canada.
NDP
NDP
Glenn Thibeault NDP Sudbury, ON
Perfect. Thank you.
I'm just going to jump back.
Mr. Weigelt, e-commerce and the mobile payments, as we were talking about, are adapting so quickly and involve such a great technology that we're all very excited about seeing the innovation that's coming forward. So, for example, I purchased a product at a local electronics shop and had my receipt e-mailed to me. And for those of us who ever had what I call a Costanza wallet--the big wallets full of receipts--I will say that it was great, because I could actually set it up on my mobile phone and put it in a folder, and now I don't lose my receipts. I don't have to go through the Costanza wallet to find them. I can actually just bring them up.
The fear I have, as a consumer, is what will happen if I lose this thing because I accidently don't put it in my inside pocket, or whatever. I know that Microsoft has technology that can maybe protect this.
Maybe you can talk about what would happen if I did lose my phone. What would be in place to ensure that it's recovered?
National Technology Officer, Microsoft Canada Co.
I'm glad you asked the question. A little over 10 years ago, Bill Gates said that confidence and trust in the electronic would be key to going forward with the digital economy. And he set the wheels in motion for a trustworthy computing initiative, putting in security by design, privacy by design, and accessibility by design into all of the tools and product sets. So the technology exists to be able to safeguard those critical values and the data that you have.
We've also tried to make it easier for people to appreciate more fundamentally what safeguards and controls they should be asking for from their mobile device providers or any device providers, and how to turn them on. Certainly you'll remember some of those funny commercials where you had that individual asking you at every step of the way. We've learned from that and we've made it more approachable so that people can have that better understanding. We've been working with the Privacy Commissioner so that you have a better understanding of privacy notices. We're making sure they're accessible and friendly. So we're working across those broad sectors and broad regions.
Sometimes there are emerging companies that perhaps haven't placed that amount of emphasis on the security and privacy of the tool sets. And the challenge is having consumers demand that from their providers.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Sweet
Thank you very much, Mr. Weigelt.
Now we'll move on to Mr. Carmichael for five minutes.
Conservative
John Carmichael Conservative Don Valley West, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to our witnesses today.
I'd like to go back to an area that Mr. Cochrane addressed, and that is training for businesses and consumers.
As a group we've heard a number of different bits of information relative to cloud computing and all of the new technologies.
As a parent, and now a grandparent, I look at my own children in the 35-and-under category that one of you referred to earlier—perhaps it was Mr. Weigelt—and how their adaptation to technology is far higher than those of us who are over 35. I'm not sure anybody is going to wait for me to catch up, but I look at my grandchildren today who are coming along at an exponentially faster pace, because they're playing with technologies and all kinds of toys and games on iPads that are phenomenally adapted from where we were five years ago. It's moving so quickly.
For those of us who come from a business background, when you talk about cloud computing and the opportunity there, the cloud, to me, seems like a financially efficient opportunity to do a better job with my business, in terms of both the cost of investment and cost of operations, etc. But I've still got a problem with having the right talent pool there to manage it.
Last week we had testimony from a number of different institutions at different committees who talked about the work being done at the post-secondary level today.
I wonder if you could talk briefly about what it's going to take to give business—small business, or SMEs—the talent pool to help them advance their businesses and stay current but continue to advance in everything they're trying to do. What do we need to get the next generation trained to help us do a better job with SMEs across this country?
National Technology Officer, Microsoft Canada Co.
I'll start with that.
Actually, when you mentioned that the elder cohort is perhaps not as comfortable with technology, we actually see both ends of the spectrum. We see the young people, and then we see people who perhaps we wouldn't believe would be comfortable with technology. If you can imagine the different specialists that people need to go to or them working with their grandchildren, etc., we also do see that the elderly community are great adopters of technology.
As we look at the skill set that's required, we see it starting at the youngest age—and almost starting with the computing ethics. Think of the pre-schoolers who are learning how to share their toys with one another while having conversations around cyber-bullying and not posting pictures or derogatory comments on the web, and things like that. So we start to build that digital literacy early and then we build that through the different stages along the way. We see Canadian education facilities innovating in this regard.
The Pembina Trails school board in Manitoba is using the cloud for online training. What they've got is an EduTube type of approach, where learners can pick a style of learning that fits them. So if they have very illustrative, demonstrative learning skills, then they can look at other lesson plans that go along with that. So it's about being comfortable with the technology to use that new training or new learning.
I think as you start to go through higher education, it's about having that understanding that digital literacy skills go across our sectors. When our electricians, our plumbers, our doctors, our lawyers are going through the school set, they have that training as they come along. Many of the younger community coming through are demanding that, and we need to be aware of that.
That helps you then build what I call adjacent innovation, as you start seeing the opportunity. Perhaps you're a carpenter, and it's seeing that you can now sell this to the world if you use these tools.
