Industry Committee on Feb. 26th, 2014

[Nathalie Verge]

Yes, the federal government provides the research and development tax credit. A few years ago, France enhanced its research and development tax credit and, this year, it improved its tax credit for video games. France justifiably sees Canada as a competitor, but the factors that brought Ubisoft to Canada are the ones I talked about at the beginning.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

Mr. Della Rocca, I'll go back to you again, please.

My colleague behind me was kind enough to make some notes. He mentioned that—and I want to make sure I have this right—you may have indicated that DFATD doesn't have the metrics to evaluate the importance of the entertainment software industry. If I got that right, what was the context of that comment?

[Jason Della Rocca]

The context is.... I mean, what they're measured on primarily is job creation. That's not just DFATD. I think that many arms of government are really just looking at that as the sole metric to measure themselves against. That may be relevant when you're talking more about old industry, about factories with how many workers inside that factory, etc., whereas when you're dealing with stuff like intellectual property with content-based industries, that's not necessarily true.

You missed the story I gave about a company in Finland that, with 125 workers, was able to sell half the company for $1.5 billion after having games that generated a million dollars a day of revenue. They paid a tax bill of $345 million. It's not comparable. It's apples and oranges.

I'm on the advisory board of DFATD on their ICT practice, and when we go into an advisory board meeting, everything is driven towards jobs, jobs, jobs. I'm trying to say, well, listen, we should find and create opportunities where these kinds of companies are able to generate that level of revenue to create new intellectual property, to have a higher degree or volume of start-ups, so that we can have those kinds of hits, let's call them. It's not just workers in the factory.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

With the indulgence of my colleagues, I just have one question. I remember that 20 years ago there was a little game called “Typing Tutor”. That's actually how I learned to type, going from the usual male one finger to this.... It was quite extraordinary.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

You were 45 then...?

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

No, I wasn't 45 then, Mr. Lake.

We talked a bit with the last witnesses about the educational aspect of gaming. How big a growth area do you see for it in the future in terms of using entertainment software more and more for educational tools, not only for youth but also even for those people who are what we'll call middle-aged? I think a high density of your users are right up to 35 and 40 years old presently, correct?

[Jason Della Rocca]

Yes, 50 to 60 years old. Again, Mr. Holder kind of created a bit of a stereotype there in terms of 22-year-olds and jeans—well, we all wear jeans—but the average age of the worker in the industry is about 30 and the average age of a gamer today is about 35. The demographics are quite diverse, both gender- and age-wise.

Games and play are fundamental to learning. It's in our human nature. To learn something is to play with it. Games—video games, digital games—are excellent at recreating certain systems. In fact, some of the best ways to understand systems are through playing with them through games.

My belief, and not only my belief, but it is certainly an opportunity.... I think the challenge from an educational point of view is more so the gatekeepers, and just the bureaucracy of the academic world, in regard to being a company that creates something that is actually useful and relevant and getting that into students' hands, getting that into the learners' hands. I think that while there is opportunity there to innovate from a design, innovation, and functionality point of view, progress in that sort of games and educational space will be stalled because of just the general red tape around the academic world. That's sort of my two cents.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

I'm glad you mentioned that.

I have just an aside, and then I want to give you some time to close up. Two years ago, I began to be a user of Khan Academy. Actually, I put that onto my kids. They didn't know about it. I think there's probably a lot of intervention directly to parents who want their kids to succeed without going to the traditional learning institutions.

We have the luxury of time to have two minutes each to wrap up if you have some comments that you'd like to make sure we hear before we end this meeting, so I'll give it to the Ubisoft ladies first and then go to Mr. Della Rocca.

[Nathalie Verge]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I hope that we have successfully conveyed to you how particular our industry is. It is neither solely technological nor solely artistic in nature. It is rather a combination of many aspects. I also hope that we have managed to raise your awareness of the challenges we face, be it when it comes to labour mobility, recruitment, workforce renewal or, for some of us, funding. Jason talked about this, as well, and I am sure of the importance of striking a balance between the biggest and the smallest developers. The latter will create tomorrow's trends and find new ways to do things, so that large studios with many employees like ours can follow suit.

I think that, by maintaining a balance, we will manage to create a long-term vision and achieve industry sustainability in Canada. We have to stay competitive, but we also have to remain open to innovation, both in its smallest and its largest forms. This is a big challenge, but I think we have everything we need to take it on.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you very much.

[Jason Della Rocca]

Just on a quick note, some of you have mentioned visiting different studios and such. If any of you are in Montreal, by all means you're welcome to look up and visit Execution Labs and see our workspace.

Also to the clerk, I can make an introduction to GRAND, which a few of the members were quite interested in learning about.

Games are an amazing business, an amazing art form, and really it is rare that we have the opportunity to witness the creation of a new art form, of a new form of human expression. Games in many ways will become the most dominate art form of the 21st century—it's considered by some that they already are.

Canada does have a leadership role today, and I certainly hope that we can all work together, industry, academia, and government, to ensure that's the case.

It is a complex industry. It's exciting. There's a lot of stuff going on. There are no magic bullets. There's no one solution that is going to fix everything, and it does require understanding the space and understanding the economics. I think it's wonderful that you're asking us from the industry to provide input and insight, and I'm honoured that I've had the chance to do so.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you very much.

On behalf of my colleagues, I want to say thank you for some great testimony. You've educated and illuminated us, and this business is an extraordinary contributor to the gross domestic product.

Thanks for travelling here, and being with us.

Mr. Côté.

[Raymond Côté, NDP, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.

On Monday, we looked at Ms. Charlton's motion, but we did not unfortunately manage to vote on it. Normally, the vote should have been held at that meeting.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Mr. Côté, there was no business scheduled for this meeting. It was strictly to hear witnesses.

If you want, I would suggest some conversations directly offline, and schedule some business for next time when there'll be agreement.

[Raymond Côté, NDP, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Okay. So we will make sure to do that at the next meeting. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

This meeting is adjourned.