Industry Committee on Nov. 4th, 2013

[Martin Bolduc]

Past experience tells us that the rights holders have good intelligence networks. As you know, they have specific suppliers. Again, it's hypothetical, but we'd probably leverage intelligence, both from the rights holders but also from other means and, for sure, cooperate with colleagues from the RCMP.

[Supt Eric Slinn]

I think that's critical. The level of intelligence sharing, not only domestically but internationally, is paramount for us to carry out effective and efficient investigations. There's one aspect of this bill where CBSA can share that intelligence much more efficiently with us.

That becomes paramount. If there are three out of nine items, it gives us a better chance or a better footing to get started on an investigation that's going to have success.

[Glenn Thibeault, NDP, Sudbury, ON]

Then the widget maker, if he or she is shipping let's say 100 of these products, are they then detained and held once they are found? Are cash, costs, all of those types of things, put back onto the business owner?

Or is it that you look at the three and say to send them back and replace...? What's the process there? I'm just trying to get an understanding.

[Supt Eric Slinn]

Well, every investigation has its uniqueness. As Martin has said, it's hypothetical for us. Whether we're going to take further enforcement action, whether we're going to just say no, would really depend on a number of factors. It's a difficult question for me to come out and compartmentalize for you.

[Glenn Thibeault, NDP, Sudbury, ON]

Fair enough.

Thank you, sir.

What is the range of fees being considered for companies to submit a request for assistance in order to have border officials seize goods infringing on their copyrights or trademarks?

How will this fee structure be balanced to ensure that small businesses have equal protection to large multinationals with far greater resources? Is it going to be a sliding scale? What type of things are being considered there?

[Martin Bolduc]

This is done at no cost—and Paul can weigh in on this—the way to make a request for assistance is done at no cost for the rights holder. Storage costs, as I mentioned earlier, are part of the private sector, so CBSA has no say in those. There's no cost for detention that CBSA imposes on an importer/exporter.

I don't know if you want to....

[Paul Halucha]

I will just add the one cost would be around storage and detention. The bill does not contain an indication of what those costs are going to be. I understand from CBSA that they're going to be doing consultations with stakeholders and identifying what would be the appropriate scheme for the cost of entry into the regime.

[Glenn Thibeault, NDP, Sudbury, ON]

For clarification, then, the tradition of intellectual property rights puts the onus of enforcement on rights holders. Is that staying the same? Is it reasonable to require rights holders to share the cost of enforcement that's laid out in this bill?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

They don't share the cost of enforcement, but it is upon them to demonstrate in court that their rights are being violated, as is the case with the Copyright Act in Canada.

[Glenn Thibeault, NDP, Sudbury, ON]

Great. Thank you, Minister.

How much time do I have, Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

One more minute.

[Glenn Thibeault, NDP, Sudbury, ON]

I have one last brief question.

Do we have any numbers of how many Canadian manufacturers have been convicted of importing or exporting counterfeited goods?

[Supt Eric Slinn]

I don't have those figures, no.

[Glenn Thibeault, NDP, Sudbury, ON]

Are they out there? If you don't have them with you today, would we be able to get a report on that sent to the committee?

[Supt Eric Slinn]

I could certainly look into getting those. I'm not aware if we have them or not, but I'll certainly endeavour to see if we can pull them for you.

[Glenn Thibeault, NDP, Sudbury, ON]

Great.

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you, Mr. Thibeault.

I'm mindful of two undertakings: one by Mr. Bolduc, one by Mr. Slinn. Once I get that information, we'll distribute it to the committee, if it's available in both cases.

The Conservative Party has stood down for their rotation position, so we have the unusual luxury of being able to offer the minister and his colleagues some closing remarks.

If you have some closing remarks, Minister, we'll entertain them.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

First, I'll close where I began, which is to thank the committee for having us all here. As I said, Minister Blaney would have been here along with me...he accepted the invitation to come today, he would have been here, but I'm sure he'll revisit the legislation if you like.

Second, we are sincere on the government side that if you have amendments that you think would strengthen the legislation, our side will certainly entertain those amendments, but let's do it quickly and get the bill back to the House.

Thank you all again.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you very much for your testimony. Minister, it is not lost on us that you did invest the full two hours here. We appreciate that very much.

Thank you very much to my colleagues.

The meeting is adjourned.