Industry Committee on Dec. 4th, 2014

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Why is it okay for Ford to do it, but not you?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Nobody who understands negotiation would do what you're suggesting and what you're demanding that we do in the name of transparency. It would be irresponsible public policy to do what you're asking us to do, which is to completely—

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

To share with the public how you're going to spend public funds.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

—hand over all of our leverage in order to get a good value investment for Canada. Ask Jerry Dias, who was at the table, who was part of the negotiations with the Government of Canada—

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

So you want him to disclose the deal, but not you.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

—and with the Government of Ontario, who was actually at the table, who knows what he's talking about, whether or not he thinks the Government of Canada did everything we could. He has said publicly on the record and thanked us in particular for the work that we did.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

What were you prepared to do?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

What we were prepared to do, Brian, is within the context of public policy that is already out there and available. If you understand the automotive innovation fund, if you understand the suite of policies, if you understand the kind of leverage and flexibility that we've shown in the past with other investments in the automotive innovation fund, you will understand the policy levers we have that we're prepared to negotiate with, with firms.

As you know, when firms look to doing investments in Canada, there's a different scale of investment with every firm. There's always a different question on jobs, on investment, on R and D, on supply chain engagement, and long-term commitments. These are all things that are negotiated. These are all things that are discussed. For the Government of Canada to come forward in the name of simplistic, really simplistic transparency and say, “Here's everything that we're prepared to do to land an investment”, is incredibly naive and would guarantee that we would get no investments that are of net benefit to Canadian taxpayers.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

You failed on this deal.

So the public doesn't have a right to know how you spend their money.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Of course, they do. Once we decide to spend it—

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

I'm sorry, that's all the time.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Brian, with respect, you don't know what you're talking about.

You have not come to my department to get a fulsome briefing on this, which we're prepared to do.

If you don't believe me, feel free to talk to Jerry Dias. You have his cell number. Give him a call. He will tell you to your face that you are wrong and you don't understand what's going on.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

I'm sorry, Minister, our time is over.

Mr. Lake, do you have a point of order?

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

I have a couple of points, I guess.

Ms. Nash was pretty adamant that we stick to the estimates, and I don't want to see conflict within the ranks of the NDP over there. Obviously, Mr. Masse is fired up.

The other thing is that it probably would be helpful if members didn't yell at the witness as the witness is giving them clear answers to the questions, no matter whether they like them or not.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you, Mr. Lake.

I think a higher level of cordiality would be very good.

We are being broadcast, so it's a little easier for those who are watching and listening to be able to understand the interplay if we can just let one person ask and one person answer.

Mr. Warawa.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

If I may speak to that point of order, O'Brien and Bosc clearly instructs us to speak through the chair to avoid what has just happened. We are also guided in O'Brien and Bosc to show respect to one another.

I was quite disappointed when the NDP was attacking the minister instead of asking a question professionally and then listening to the response.

I think it's important that we speak through you, Chair, and to show respect.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you, Mr. Warawa.

Madam Sgro.

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

They're wasting time.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

On that point of order, I really appreciate that everybody wants to be cordial, and we do a really good job in this committee with that, but every once in a while, perhaps the government side could do a bit of a flashback to a few years ago.

That's just to remind them. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Madam Gallant.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Getting back on track and sharing the love, I want to tell the NDP, through you, Mr. Chairman, how pleased I am that, as anti-free traders, they are embracing the idea of a bridge between Canada and the United States.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

I think that's probably enough on that point.

Mr. Warawa, for five minutes, please.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

I really do appreciate the minister being with us today. I know he has an extremely busy schedule.

I want to focus on manufacturing, and I guess I have two main questions.

Minister, could you outline the measures that our government has taken to support the manufacturing sector and how that differs from the NDP plan? What is the contrast? Even more importantly, Canadians did give the Government of Canada the mandate to focus on the economy, and I believe they've done an incredible job. You have a proven track record. Is that job done? Do we need to do more work on the economy and to continue to maintain Canadians' strong economic leadership?

Could you outline our track record, the NDP correspondence, and is the job done?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Again, I'm happy to contrast that. I'll calm myself down.

I think you saw a perfect example of the contrast a second ago. Does anybody who is entirely sober really think that an international firm that is thinking about a multi-billion-dollar investment in Canada is actually going to consent to entering into a negotiation with the Government of Ontario, the Government of Canada, and the City of Windsor, that they're actually going to come to the table and have a conversation with us if they have to have a completely open and transparent exposure of all of their thoughts when they're trying to compare what the opportunity is in Windsor versus Mexico, or Windsor versus South Carolina, or Oshawa versus an opportunity in the southern United States? It is ridiculous to think that's an effective way to go.

We have to make sure that we are getting the best value for Canadian taxpayers. We have to make sure that, yes, we are supporting the manufacturing opportunities within Canada, but it is ridiculous to think that the approach to take on this stuff is just to surrender any leveraging we have in order to get value for Canadians and to actually land these investments.

Jerry Dias, who is a serious person who understands how negotiating is done, who was actually at the table, will rebut everything that the NDP has said on this file. He will tell this committee, if you invite him to this committee, that the Government of Canada has done everything it possibly could do to try to land that investment from Ford.

Now, I appreciate that Brian Masse is defending Windsor because he's from Windsor and all that, but I think we have a broader obligation as the Government of Canada to recognize that these negotiations are done in a more effective way to ensure that you get best value for Canadian taxpayers. Any assertion that we lost the investment is a laughable assertion by anybody who says that out loud.

More broadly on manufacturing, there actually is very good news, I think, overall. Manufacturing sales have bounced back. They're up 25% since the start of the recession. Manufacturing employs, as you know, close to 1.7 million Canadians. We do have good news out of Honda. We do have good news out of Magna and Linamar. We do have good news out of our food processors. We do have good news out of pharmaceuticals. We do have forward progress in a lot of areas of the Canadian economy, but of course we do face challenges from some low-cost jurisdictions elsewhere in the world. We will continue to work with this committee, work with Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters, so that we can move forward on the initiatives that I know this committee has studied and recommended to the government, which found their way into this year's budget.

Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters said, for example, about budget 2014 that “the budget contains a number of measures that will assist manufacturers and exporters in finding and training skilled workers, lower regulatory compliance costs, and help win major new automotive investments in Canada”.

Those who are the experts in how manufacturing can best be supported by the Government of Canada have put forward ideas. We have listened and we have implemented them in our budget. They have, in turn, supported our budgets. We're very thankful for their support.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you, Minister Moore. Thank you, Mr. Warawa.

Mr. Côté, you have five minutes.