Industry Committee on Nov. 25th, 2013

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

You do have seven minutes, and you have four minutes now.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you, sir.

The Business Development Bank wants to be able to create, as it has done for venture capital, pools of capital to help the co-ops, but because of its mandate it currently cannot do so. A Senate committee has actually recommended that, so I don't know why the mandate hasn't been reviewed. That's one example.

There are a number of regional economic development organizations. FedNor reports through the Department of Industry. There are others that don't but that are affiliated and work with them. Again, each of these could have a greater role in helping solve the biggest problem identified by the committee after hearing 50 witnesses, which is the capitalization of co-ops. With regard to StatsCan, there's a necessity there for information. The dismantling of the secretariat at Agriculture and the transferring of only two people out of the 90 who were there means there remains a need for stats, and those too flow from Industry Canada.

There are also a variety of programs in Industry Canada that could be looked at through the prism of co-ops. There are a few other files of significance that don't necessarily deal with industry but that don't deal with the finance department where the credit unions remain. Therefore, someone has to look at those and I would hope that would be the subcommittee.

Having mentioned these, Mr. Chairman, I also want to say regarding the schedule of meetings that I'm quite flexible on that. Of course, the government has a majority and can impose on that, but the meetings don't need to be twice a week. I've been whip on the government side and I understand that members of the government have to sit on two, sometimes three, committees, and the creation of a subcommittee frightens the whip's office and frightens many members. We can be very accommodating and perhaps we can even put a time limit on it. We can try it for a year and see what happens.

I'm just saying this now because, unfortunately, I've learned that quite often these kinds of initiatives get dealt with at in camera meetings and nothing ever comes out, because the only things one can report from in camera meetings are positively adopted resolutions. So if a motion is defeated in camera, it can't be reported.

I think people in the co-op community—there are 9,000 of them across the country and 150,000 employees—deserve to know whether or not there's enough will to create a subcommittee to try to address some of the very significant issues that are part and parcel of the economic well-being of Canadians.

I've said that, and we'll see what happens later on.

Do I have a couple minutes?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

You have one minute and 15 seconds.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you.

There are a couple things, very quickly, I want to ask of Madame Nott.

Can you tell us why—

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

On a point of order, I have a question for you, Chair. Procedurally, my understanding is that a motion has been moved. It has been accepted, and then the new order of business is the motion that's on the table. None of the witnesses have anything to do with the motion.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I'm not asking them questions about the motion.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

But what is on the table right now—and that's my point of order—is the motion. So all questioning has to be relevant to the motion on the table. Until it's officially deferred, this is what we must discuss. All discussion, I believe, needs to be relevant to the motion on the table.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

It does if that's the will of the committee, Mr. Warawa. I sensed that the will of the committee was to deal with it afterwards. Mr. Bélanger had mentioned that. Mr. Lake had a point of order directing in that way, but certainly, if you want the debate to continue on the motion, then we can do that and go directly to that.

Madam Gallant.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

I have a question, Mr. Chairman.

The member opposite introduced his motion during his turn in the speaking order. So when that number of minutes is up and after we've finished dealing with the motion, does he get another seven minutes to ask questions or just the balance that's left?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

No, Madam Gallant. In fact there's no hard and fast rule in this regard, because we are balancing the agenda of the committee with the individual freedom of the member, and that's what I'm trying to do here. There's not a lot, certainly, that I have read in the procedure of the committee that gives exact detail. That's why I want to move with the will of the committee.

So if I sense the will of the committee is to go right into debate on this motion, then we'll do that. If I sense the will of the committee is to move on and allow Mr. Bélanger to use the last minute for questions and then have everybody return to the topic at hand, I'll do that. Right now I'll go to Madame Charlton to see what she has on her mind.

[Chris Charlton, NDP, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair.

As you can probably guess, my NDP colleagues and I very much support Mr. Belanger's motion. If the Conservative colleagues on this committee do as well, then perhaps we could just pass it by unanimous consent and get back to the witnesses.

[An hon. member]

I like that idea.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

I don't sense that would be the will of the committee.

Mr. Wallace?

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Did our colleague from the Liberal party actually move the motion?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Yes.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

So the motion has been moved; it's future business. I move that we move in camera to talk about future business. Those are the rules. If that's what he wants to do, to move it now, those are the rules.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

All right, Mr. Wallace.

A motion has been put on the floor to move in camera. It's a dilatory motion. We'll go right to a vote.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I'd like a recorded vote.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Has he given him a seven minute rant on an issue....

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

But technically he could cut through the whole meeting.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Exactly.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

There's no time limit on moving a motion.

[Chris Charlton, NDP, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

In that case, grab the bull by the horns.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

It's too late now. I'm voting in favour of going in camera.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

It's going to be a recorded vote.

(Motion agreed to: yeas 6; nays 5)

The motion is carried and we'll move in camera. That means everyone, except members—