Industry Committee on May 3rd, 2018

[Maxime Bernier, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Who receive grants?

[John Knubley]

—of those, 300 are small and medium-sized.

[Maxime Bernier, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

You give a privilege to 300 small business firms and corporations in Canada. There are a lot of small businesses. As you said, there are more than a million small businesses. Don't you think it's unfair to do that, to tax them after giving this to only 300 small businesses?

That being said, did you do—

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

We lowered the small business tax rate.

[Maxime Bernier, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

I know that. That's why you must lower rates for everybody. The best thing would be to abolish your department. That way, you don't create any distortion in the economy.

That being said—

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

Government is good—

[Maxime Bernier, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Yes, but that being said, did you do an analysis of the cost of the carbon tax for small businesses? I know that your government did an analysis of the carbon tax for families in Canada, but for small businesses in Canada, do you know how much it will cost to be in line with your Liberal carbon tax?

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

I will start by saying that what's clear—and I started by giving you some recognition—is we that have different approaches. Your previous government's approach was a different one. We believe that you do need to take the environment seriously—

[Maxime Bernier, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

You don't know what the cost will be for the small businesses?

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

We believe that we need to take the environment seriously, and we believe that we can actually make strategic investments to create conditions for growth. That is what Canadians are expecting. When we talk about perspectives—

[Maxime Bernier, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

You think you know better than a small business owner? You know better what to do with their own money?

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

Respectfully, when we are talking about a diversity of opinions, it's important to note that, yes, you have an opinion, that of somebody who was born in 1801.

We are preparing for the economy of tomorrow. Something that has not been done is that we had not seen a government in a long time, until this government came in, that was visionary—

[Maxime Bernier, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

He is one of the best economists that we ever—

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

On that note, time is up. There is no time for Mr. Lloyd.

We're going to move to Mr. Angus for seven minutes.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's a great honour to be at your committee.

Madam Chagger, I believe this is the first time that I've had a chance to speak with you on these issues.

When I was listening to your speech, what stuck out was that you gave a shout-out to the six regional development agencies that are doing great work to promote economic development in every corner of this great country, so I started to count: the Atlantic region, western economic development, the southern Ontario development, the Quebec agencies, and then the far north development agency.

That's great, but that's not every corner of the country. Northern Ontario is completely left out of your map. FedNor is not recognized. If you're going to just count the other six, Madam Chagger, I want to know, what is it about FedNor such that you don't even say it plays an important role in economic development?

[John Knubley]

Honourable member and honourable Chair, FedNor is a part of the department, as are the other RDAs. It does have somewhat different machinery insofar as FedNor—

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I understand that.

[John Knubley]

—is directly in the department, as opposed to in the portfolio. It is part of the department and works directly with all other RDAs.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I guess my concern is that in previous practice—

[John Knubley]

In addition, the funding of northern Ontario was increased.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I understand that, but you don't even.... My concern is that when I look at what you're presenting us, when you talk about being China ready, app development, and superclusters, it speaks nothing to the people I represent, who are rural, who are blue collar.

You talk about the middle class. I represent the industrial working class. What I've seen from FedNor is the incredible work they've done that's been allowed to stagnate. Past practice was that there was a FedNor minister for the north. Your government got rid of that. The past practice was that FedNor was always identified in the minister's documents and spoken of. We're told, well, you're going to consolidate.

I just want to understand how it is that your approach is going to respond to rural, northern, isolated, blue-collar communities when you don't even mention this part of our economy.

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

I will respond by saying to you that I thank you for bringing that to my attention.

Northern Ontario is important to me, and it should be important to all. I will definitely take that as constructive feedback. It is definitely something that we will continue to follow up on. There's no reason that we can't share the monies that are being invested in FedNor so people are able to see that. We do believe that this information should be available, not only for your constituencies.... I will go one step farther and say that you represent more than northern Ontario because you're quite well known across this country.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Well, thank you. I'm known for fighting hard for our people.

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

That's what we have in common.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I want to do a shout-out.

FedNor, with the limited budget it has, goes to the Prospectors and Developers Association convention every year, which is the biggest mining expo in the world. The northern Ontario booth is extraordinary. We're bringing in international investors. People want to participate. However, 72% of FedNor's budget is spent before the year begins. We've lost 30% of our staffing. The internal documents show lower and lower morale because they're unable to answer. When I look to see where your government is on this, I see that the government is saying that it's going to consolidate regional development. That doesn't work for us because northern Ontario is not southern Ontario. Resource-based communities are not supercluster communities. What of this plan of consolidation? What stage is it at, and how does that include FedNor?