Industry Committee on May 8th, 2018

[Frank Baylis, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Mr. Prieur thinks Canada should take a stricter approach. Are you against that?

[Nicolas Sapp]

Yes, absolutely.

Quebec's situation is unique because of Copibec. It plays a major role. It may be just $13.50 per student, but keep in mind that amounts to $2,372,000 for the three universities we represent.

[Frank Baylis, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

That's more than $2 million going to Copibec, then.

How much do you spend in total to obtain copyright permission?

[Nicolas Sapp]

I have the figures for Concordia University.

[Frank Baylis, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Can you share them with us?

[Nicolas Sapp]

Yes, I just need a moment to find them.

[Frank Baylis, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

If you don't have them handy…

[Nicolas Sapp]

Here they are. I expected this was something the committee would ask.

For Concordia University alone, we are talking about $573,000. On top of that is the cost of what are called pay-per-use licences, or specific authorizations, which are necessary when content use exceeds the 15% limit allowed under the reproduction rights licence. Specific authorizations cost $70,000, and the photocopy cost is around $50,000, so that's an additional $120,000.

[Frank Baylis, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

I was actually referring to your total expenditures. You said you spent millions and called the system an oligopoly. How much do you spend in total on acquisitions?

[Nicolas Sapp]

Concordia University's head librarian is here with me, so she could tell you exactly how much in terms of the library's budget.

[Frank Baylis, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Unfortunately, I'm out of time.

You said the total amount was going up. Can you provide us with a breakdown of the exact amount paid to Copibec every year since 2004, versus total spending for that year?

[Nicolas Sapp]

Yes.

[Frank Baylis, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Very good.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Jeneroux, you have the floor for seven minutes.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

Thank you.

I'm going to switch to English.

Thank you very much. I am also very interested in the numbers that Mr. Baylis was going after. I was going after those too, so if we could finish up Mr. Baylis's line of questioning before we go into my questions, that would be great.

[Nicolas Sapp]

Yes, of course.

Concordia University paid $573,000 to Copibec. In addition to that, the university spent $70,000 plus $50,000 on pay-per-use licensing, or specific authorizations. The total amount, then, spent by Concordia on Copibec licensing was nearly $700,000.

If you'd like more exact figures related to purchasing and the library, Mrs. Beaudry could provide those.

[Guylaine Beaudry, Vice-President of Digital Strategy and University Librarian, Concordia University]

Good afternoon.

At Concordia we have an acquisition budget of $7 million per year, of which 90% is devoted to digital resources. Of this number, we have the Copibec licence where we have $500K, and only $70,000 only for the digital resources that we put on e-reserves. Those are the book chapters, articles from journal issues that we put on e-reserves. There is an additional $50,000 that we pay for course packs, the print material.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

Perfect.

I'm trying to wrap my head around some of the differences at Concordia University. It sounds like you speak for two other universities as well at the table here. With regard to the relationship with Copibec, we saw a university before us yesterday that opted out of the Access Copyright portion, the Copibec equivalent.

I'd like to know the reason you're staying with Copibec as opposed to opting out. What, perhaps, is the value added for why you would stay with them?

[Nicolas Sapp]

Concordia decided to negotiate an agreement with Copibec because it does, after all, provide a framework and make tracking easier. That's why Concordia University chose to enter into an agreement with Copibec.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

Okay.

Does the Copibec licence prevent faculty, staff, and students of Concordia from relying on fair dealing?

[Nicolas Sapp]

The Copibec agreement sets out a usage limit of 15%. Universities pay $13.50 per full-time student and, under the agreement, are allowed to reproduce up to 15% of the publication. Anything over that threshold requires the university to obtain specific authorization at an additional cost.

For works not covered by the Copibec agreement, Concordia negotiates directly with the publishers or copyright owners.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

That would be different from the case for other schools we've heard from.

We've seen that 10% is what other universities...the fair dealing component.

So you're saying that Concordia and other universities are different?

[Nicolas Sapp]

No, those are the terms of the Copibec agreement in Quebec, which was signed by the three universities I am representing today. It is the same agreement signed by the vast majority of Quebec universities, and it very clearly sets the usage limit at 15%.

The 10% you're talking about comes from the content use guidelines followed by most Canadian universities.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

Okay.

That helps clear that up. Thank you for doing that.

Let's move to the Prieur boys, either one.

In June 2017, BookNet Canada published a report called “The State of Digital Publishing in Canada”. In that study, they found that the sale of digital books has actually begun decreasing from 88% in 2014 to just 54% in 2016. The reason cited for this decline includes Canadians rediscovering the tactile experience of print books as well as digital fatigue.

On the other hand, BookNet found that the sale of audiobooks has skyrocketed, from 16% in 2015 to 37% in 2016.

Recognizing that the data is a little bit old, from 2016, could you comment whether you have seen this trend continue in your sector?

[Richard Prieur]

I'm not sure I understand your question. Are you asking about the drop in digital book sales?