Evidence of meeting #120 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was songwriters.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:20 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Music Publishers Association
No, it is not working, and there is a review ongoing on that and looking at alternatives.
4:20 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Music Publishers Association
I don't have them with me, but I could provide you with more information in my submission.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
Yes. It is like what they call whack-a-mole. These guys go here and they get taken down, and they go there and they get taken down. But at least it's more than what we have right now in Canada, which is nothing. We just keep doing endless notices.
4:20 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Music Publishers Association
Yes, so the good players like Spotify and Apple come to the table and they negotiate. We have the fall ack of the Copyright Board and hopefully when we have a smoothly operating Copyright Board you could go there if there were a problem.
We're looking at the players on Torrent sites and stream-ripping and services that are out of Canada that have refused to come to the table on licence.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
Okay.
Mr. Lefebvre, you raised an interesting point. You mentioned Google, Amazon, Facebook, the web giants. What is your particular view on this? Is it the fact that those companies are not paying their share? Could you explain some more?
4:20 p.m.
Secretary-Treasurer, Guilde des musiciens et musiciennes du Québec
Web giants take advantage of a system that does not hold them accountable, although Spotify pays money to collectives for the use of directories. What I mean is that the amounts of money paid to all the rights holders are minimal. It is said that the revenues from streaming are meagre, and that is really what is happening. The amounts paid are truly minimal.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
YouTube, for example, pays very small amounts, as you said. Would you like the Copyright Board of Canada to set a certain percentage for authors? What solution are you proposing?
4:20 p.m.
Secretary-Treasurer, Guilde des musiciens et musiciennes du Québec
It is difficult for me to speak for the Copyright Board. However, I would point out that it has full discretion to set tariffs in certain situations provided for in the act.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
Ms. McGuffin, you had something about the Copyright Board being too slow. Is this a solution to have certain minimums for streaming or for YouTube videos, things like that?
4:20 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Music Publishers Association
Those things have already been discussed for music publishers and songwriters in the online hearing, and you'll be having people from CIMA and SOCAN appear who can answer more questions about that. The problem with the Copyright Board right now is that it's taking them three and a half to four years to render decisions. They're releasing decisions that have no relevance to the current market because new entities have entered, and the ones who were at the hearing don't exist anymore.
We're pleased to see the investment in case management that was announced as part of the IP strategy. That's important. We took part in the consultation last September. There were 60 submissions, and I understand from both sides of the table at the Copyright Board, there were some very common themes. We're looking forward to action on those themes.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Dan Ruimy
Thank you very much.
We're going to move on. I'm sure we can get back to you.
Mr. Jeneroux, you have five minutes.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Matt Jeneroux Conservative Edmonton Riverbend, AB
That's perfect. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you for being here.
I'm tempted to ask Mr. Lefebvre why you chose Gruyère cheese of all the cheeses to decide the Copyright Act. I will leave that. Maybe you can work that into some of your answers as we go.
I wanted to clarify if we can with a simple yes or no, Mr. Willaert. Are you for notice and take down?
4:25 p.m.
Vice-President from Canada (American Federation of Musicians), Canadian Federation of Musicians
Yes, as a stopgap until something better is achieved.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
4:25 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Music Publishers Association
We don't support it in the way that it's applied in the U.S., and we'll provide more details in our submission.
4:25 p.m.
Secretary-Treasurer, Guilde des musiciens et musiciennes du Québec
I agree with Ms. McGuffin.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Matt Jeneroux Conservative Edmonton Riverbend, AB
Okay.
We've heard quite the opposite with some of the other presenters up to this point on notice and notice. I'm hoping that your submission, Ms. McGuffin, clarifies and addresses some of the things that were raised previously as well.
Help us understand this a little. When a song is played on the radio, what share of the resulting compensation goes to the songwriter, the record-maker, the music publisher, and all other parties involved in the value chain?
4:25 p.m.
Vice-President from Canada (American Federation of Musicians), Canadian Federation of Musicians
Two different collectives are involved. You have SOCAN, which looks after the composer and the lyricist and the publisher. Then you have neighbouring rights, which is a royalty paid out to the musicians and the label, so different collectives, different tariffs.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
4:25 p.m.
Vice-President from Canada (American Federation of Musicians), Canadian Federation of Musicians
Yes.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Matt Jeneroux Conservative Edmonton Riverbend, AB
When a song is on Apple and Spotify, how does that differ?
4:25 p.m.
Vice-President from Canada (American Federation of Musicians), Canadian Federation of Musicians
That's one of the problems. If you have a streaming hit, let's say in the United States, and it gets 100 million streams worldwide, that could generate between $130,000 and $220,000 for the label and the artist. But when Canada's Copyright Board addressed tariff no. 8, they established a rate that is 10% of that in the United States. If a Canadian artist, for instance, were miraculously to have 100 million streams, they would manage to make $10,200.