Industry Committee on Oct. 22nd, 2018

[Ari Posner]

As Paul said, I do think that's something we should consult with our performance rights organization about, to be able to give you an accurate picture of that.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Okay, thank you.

I'll pass it on to Mr. Longfield.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Thanks.

I'd like to start off with some questions for Mr. Greco from the CNIB. I volunteered for several years at the CNIB in Winnipeg back in the 1970s, I'm afraid to say. Technology was a lot different then. We were working with books that were on cassette tapes or on reel-to-reel tapes.

I'm wondering in terms of this legislation...we've opened up the Marrakesh Treaty. We've given the green light for materials to be available in different formats, but it sounds like that isn't being enacted by the people providing the formats for your use.

[Lui Greco]

Let me use an analogy to answer that.

Marrakesh has turned on the tap, but the water's not running.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

There's no pump.

[Lui Greco]

It is incredibly easy today to produce Braille. The technology is very different from the four-track cassette tapes. I remember those tapes.

I had a calculus book in university that was 36 four-track, slow-speed cassette tapes. Today, the technology would make that more than redundant. It would be considered dinosaur age.

Let's be honest, if Marrakesh is successful then the quantity of alternate format materials that are available to Canadians—because Marrakesh requires sharing across borders—will be improved. This applies not only to English and French materials. Because we are a multicultural society and immigration is rapidly changing our landscape, we'll be able to get books in other languages that are produced offshore.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

So it isn't a legislative problem I'm hearing.

[Lui Greco]

Correct.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

I'm thinking also of your example of career planning. Looking on your website, I see that the Project Aspiro has an employment resource on it that's developed in partnership with the World Blind Union and funded by the Ontario Trillium Foundation. Again, the tools might be there to develop skills or to share skills but there seems to be a blockage there even in terms of just getting tested.

[Lui Greco]

Yes.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

It's a little frustrating when we're trying to work on legislation and thinking that we're going to do something. It sounds like we need to put some teeth into the legislation in terms of funding.

[Lui Greco]

I think, as Mr. Simpson said at the end of our talking points, if publishers expect the protection that copyright affords them in whatever form that comes in, then the expectation should be that they produce their books in alternate format at birth. We're well beyond the days of needing every single accessible-format book to be read in a studio by a human being. There is free software available that will produce books in a better quality than you heard on this. It's getting better, it's getting faster and it's free, so it can't get much cheaper.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Thank you very much.

I wish I had more time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

We're going to move to Mr. Albas from the Conservative Party.

You have seven minutes.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank all of our witnesses for making the time to share your expertise with us today.

In particular, I'd like to start with the CNIB on the Braille.

First of all, is this French? Is it English?

Second, about how many pages would this be either

in French or in English,

if this was submitted? I just want to get a sense of the briefing note you supplied today.

[Thomas Simpson]

That's double-sided. That is four single-sided pages.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Okay, so it's quite extensive.

[Thomas Simpson]

Yes.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Thank you. That's a very effective way of communicating that.

Getting to the actual Copyright Act, they use the term “perceptual disability.” Does either the CNIB or the Council of Canadians with Disabilities believe that definition is broad enough to cover all of the people who may require exceptions under the act?

[Thomas Simpson]

There's also a definition of “print disabilities” within the copyright legislation that is probably just as good as or better than “perceptual disabilities.” That was why our recommendation was to continue to use the term “print disabilities.”

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Okay.

[John Rae]

I've always thought that “perceptual disability” in this context is a rather strange term. I think “print disability” is better. Harkening back to the Marrakesh Treaty, it may help the cross-border sharing of what is produced, but still the issue is getting publishers to produce more to start with. That's where the act needs to do a better job in encouraging publishers to produce materials accessibly from the get-go.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

I believe you mentioned the accessibility act that has recently been tabled. Which term do you think should be used in it? As far as I have read, the term “perceptual disability” does not exist in that legislation.

[John Rae]

That's true. I believe it does not. There's a fairly broad definition of disability in Bill C-81. A lot of us are suggesting that the bill could be strengthened considerably with amendments and we hope that the HUMA committee will see fit to do so.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Mr. Rae, in regard to that piece of legislation, it's helpful for people, regardless of where they come from, to have similar language applied along different pieces of legislation. Would you be supportive of seeing a definition in the Copyright Act that's similar to the one in the accessibility act?