Evidence of meeting #138 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was forward.
A video is available from Parliament.
Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, CPC
So you were not briefed before media reports started coming out on this, Mr. Minister.
Liberal
Navdeep Bains Liberal Mississauga—Malton, ON
We are very familiar with Statistics Canada looking at administrative data and other data sets to make sure it can compile good-quality, reliable data. But the specifics of where those requests were being made and for whom, I did not know until it was made available in the media.
Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, CPC
Okay, so Statistics Canada did not alert your office prior to that.
At the time, when you first found out about this, did you think about advising the Privacy Commissioner about this program?
Liberal
Navdeep Bains Liberal Mississauga—Malton, ON
As you know, this is a pilot project and no data has actually been collected or obtained. The way this all unfolded was that Statistics Canada engaged the Privacy Commissioner, so the appropriate steps were being taken to deal with issues around privacy and data protection.
I think you heard from the chief statistician, who came before the committee as well, that he would only move forward if issues around data privacy and data protection were dealt with in a meaningful way.
Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, CPC
Do you think, Minister, that something has gone wrong here, when the Privacy Commissioner of Canada goes to a Senate committee and says that he wasn't aware of 500,000 Canadian households being asked to participate without their knowledge or their consent?
You didn't know about it either. You learned about it through the media. Do you think that's a problem there?
Liberal
Navdeep Bains Liberal Mississauga—Malton, ON
I think Statistics Canada is a world-class statistical agency. It has a lot of respect within Canada, and internationally as well.
For me, it was a point of pride when we reintroduced the mandatory long-form census to get good-quality, reliable data. I have a lot of confidence in the chief statistician and the work they do. Clearly—
Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, CPC
—do you believe that StatsCan needs to ask for consent for this level of data?
Liberal
Navdeep Bains Liberal Mississauga—Malton, ON
My understanding is that, first of all, no data has been transferred. Let's state the facts.
Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, CPC
Well, you're the minister, and you're going to be able at some point to rein in on this. Do you believe that Canadians should be able to give their consent?
Liberal
Navdeep Bains Liberal Mississauga—Malton, ON
We need to be mindful of the fact that we saw political interference by the previous government, which led to the resignation of Munir Sheikh, the former chief statistician. We have to be very mindful of the fact that the chief statistician understands the methodology, as well as how to collect the data appropriately and in a manner that respects data privacy.
We establish what we need the data for. For example, we need good-quality, reliable data for Canadians to get benefits from the Canada child benefit—
Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, CPC
Minister, the question was whether you believe that for this level of collection there should be people's consent. Is that yes or no?
Liberal
Navdeep Bains Liberal Mississauga—Malton, ON
My understanding was that customers would have been informed.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Dan Ruimy
Thank you.
We're going to move to Mr. Masse. You have five minutes, please.
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister.
Bill C-36 actually moved the statistical analysis and collection from Statistics Canada to Shared Services.
Do you still support that decision? It is what led to the problem we have now. It's a new data collection, and you're describing it in House of Commons testimony as a “pilot project”. Are you going to confirm right now that this is absolutely a one-time thing that's happening, or now that it's moved to Shared Services this is actually the practice that was in the legislation?
Liberal
Navdeep Bains Liberal Mississauga—Malton, ON
With respect to this particular initiative, it's a pilot project. It was the first time this project was moved forward, so it's still in its early stages. As the chief statistician has indicated, this is really about making sure data privacy is protected. It's still early stages, and it simply is a pilot project.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
What is not a pilot is that Shared Services now does the data collection instead of Statistics Canada. Is that not correct?
Liberal
Navdeep Bains Liberal Mississauga—Malton, ON
You're correct. The actual data is protected and managed between Statistics Canada and Shared Services.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
The chief statistician, in whom you've expressed confidence, referred to the uproar that's been created as “fake news” and “Trumpism”. Do you support that statement?
Liberal
Navdeep Bains Liberal Mississauga—Malton, ON
We have to be very respectful and mindful of the legitimate concerns Canadians have around data protection and privacy. What is problematic—and it's nothing really new; it's the opposition doing its job—is that in the House of Commons there's a lot of over-the-top rhetoric, with comments about surveillance and suggestions that people's personal information will be disclosed.
We have to be very thoughtful about saying there are issues around data protection and around privacy, but no personal information has ever leaked from the servers. Personal information is removed, and this is still early stages. No data had been collected. The banks would have needed to inform the customers as well.
We cannot underestimate the importance of data protection and privacy. That's why we launched a data consultation process, to build that trust with Canadians.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
I saw that in your letter to the chair you indicated a willingness to come back to our committee, and I've tabled a motion to invite you back with regard to the budget bill and our copyright study.
Can I confirm that you would be willing to come back to the committee? That was your original offer to the chair. The budget bill changes things, and we'd like to have that analysis to hopefully address our concerns and have a study that's actually worthwhile.
Liberal
Navdeep Bains Liberal Mississauga—Malton, ON
Again, I appreciate that you think I have some say on committee matters. I don't. The committee controls its own destiny. Whatever you guys determine, I'm willing to accommodate. Thank you for the offer.