I'm mindful of your time. I think we can collectively get you some information about the return on investment at both a college and a university, and the difference between students who have to borrow money to go to school versus students who don't have to. We'll make an agreement to provide the committee with the correct data.
I'd like to talk a bit about the skill discussion for a moment. I'm worried about nomenclature. We keep talking about there being a skills gap. When I talk to business and industry, I hear that message, and then I have to work hard to translate what they mean for the different industries and the different types of organizations. They could mean they want to hire someone from a workforce unit that they're going to pay just above minimum wage and they need to make sure they can read and write to meet standards. Because there's a shortage now they're prepared to pay a little better than minimum wage, but they're more concerned about a skill in communication, teamwork, writing, and math.
A lot of people equate having a trade or a journeyman paper with having a skill. In some sectors there are shortages, and in others there aren't. Yet we talk about a skill gap of apprentices in this large group of people.
I don't think people understand what a technologist and a technician can do versus what an engineer can do. We keep putting them all in the same pot. It would be something of value for this industry to look at.