Industry Committee on May 12th, 2016

[Paul Davidson]

Let me respond to that, because I talked about a couple of rabbit holes earlier in the conversation. I think this is another rabbit hole, respectfully.

There are some you will hear from who say what we need is a one-size-fits-all template. That's not how Canada works. That's not how our economy works. There are a range of alternatives and approaches.

At the University of Waterloo it's 100% investigator-owned, at other universities it's 100% university-owned, and at many universities it's a blend.

[Frank Baylis, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Do we have statistics?

[Paul Davidson]

What we have found is that both sides often spend too much time worrying about what the ultimate payday is going to be and not enough time getting on with the work. For example, if you look at the recent changes at the University of Manitoba's IP policy, there is one where they found ways of respecting the intellectual property protocols while enabling both sides to get on with the work, and then talking about about how to divide the spoils.

There are examples we can provide you with of different IP models across the country.

[Frank Baylis, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

I agree there are different IP models across the country. Like I said, I've had experience across the board with them. Some work, in my estimation, and some don't work. I could be wrong. Do we have any statistics in terms of getting IP out, or interactions between the...if you could find that?

[Paul Davidson]

Again, we can provide some additional information, and this is part of the joy of the work you're doing in making this study, because for years we measured number of patents as one outcome. Well, what about revenue, what about—

[Frank Baylis, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Do you have that?

[Paul Davidson]

There are reams of data on that and we'll be happy to share it with you.

Again, my message to you is be careful, it's a rabbit hole, because there is not a one-size-fits-all approach to this. There are some institutions that do it very well, there are some others that do it less well, but you will hear from witnesses who say this is the number one burning issue. I would respectively disagree with that.

[Frank Baylis, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Do you have something to add to that?

[Christine Trauttmansdorff]

One statistic I was verifying is that with colleges and institutes, I think 63% of our members report that their IP policy gives it entirely to the partner, no interest at all. There's a blend of other arrangements, but in general, as MaryLynn said, there's no interest or motivation for faculty to keep IP, or for the institutions.

[Dr. MaryLynn West-Moynes]

Our motivation really is that we don't think we can afford to have a society where we have apprentices and diploma graduates studying in post-secondary education, making a huge investment, and not being involved in research and innovation. That's the motivation at the college table and that's why the German model and Siemens are so successful, because that has been created.

We have to move from the mentality that if you go to university you do research, and if you do any other job, you don't. We need everybody doing it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Nuttall, you have five minutes.

[Alex Nuttall, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to each of our witnesses today for making the trek here to be with us.

One of the things that has struck me on a local level, and I think I've heard it from all three of you today in different ways, is about the international students and the impact they have both on our education system as well as on our economy.

I have two questions. First, in terms of international students, what percentage are coming to Canada and will end up in a manufacturing type or sector job or industry at the end of it?

[Paul Davidson]

I don't have that data immediately available.

I will say that over the last several years the approach has been to actually reward and encourage international students to come to Canada, stay in Canada, invest in Canada, and find work in Canada. That has been a tremendous competitive advantage as we go up against our competitors to attract talent.

[Alex Nuttall, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

Absolutely!

My next question is what percentage of international students are staying in Canada, and calling Canada their home after that?

[Dr. MaryLynn West-Moynes]

Can I come at that from a local perspective, then maybe you'll have some time to draw up some data on this particular topic?

What has happened in this country, which is fabulous, is.... Two or three years ago, you came as an international student and then you had six weeks to go home, but now you can stay and if you can find a job you can stay for two years. If you're good in that job, the employer will consider supporting you. It is a brilliant approach in my opinion.

Here's the challenge for the international student, and we're finding it at Georgian. It is getting a co-op work experience, being able to span that bridge between their culture and what they've been trained to do, what workforces are looking for, and being able to successfully get an interview so they can get the work experience. Then also, how do they get a job?

I really believe this is a place where, if we want to attract those minds from all over the world into the manufacturing sector, we help bridge to jobs for our international students. That would allow them to have a two-year experience, hopefully get gainful employment, go on and apply for citizenship, and go on to driving our economy.

It's brilliant. Would you agree?

[Christine Trauttmansdorff]

Yes, I absolutely agree.

I think there are some policy changes in the works that are going to address some of the issues around visa requirements and those transition measures. Then there's preparing people in terms of language and culture to do that job interview and get a job.

I think I read today there is a recent study being done that says 18-year-olds to 35-year-olds in the world are rating Canada as the best country in the world. What an opportunity for us in terms of attracting international students to Canada.

MaryLynn made a reference to Barrie, Simcoe, Georgian, and Lakehead, all working together to promote that region internationally. I think Canada could do a far better job taking that model and scaling it up. That branding Canada effort internationally is a huge challenge for us, and we can work together much more effectively to leverage those people who think we're the best place in the world.

[Paul Davidson]

I would just add that, as MaryLynn was saying, it's important that those students have a high-quality experience. The minute we start treating them like cash cows we're done. So the wraparound around language, culture, work experience is critically important for their desire to stay in the country.

[Alex Nuttall, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

Absolutely. Before I run out of time, “collaboration” is something that I've heard from you guys over and over again. I think it's fair to say that the government as well as we on this side of the House feel that's very important, as is the alignment of courses with the market demands.

For my final question on access to capital, perhaps, Paul, I can focus on you because I can ask MaryLynn this any day of the week. When you have businesses or students who are creating businesses is there capital readily available for them to hit the market and run with, taking whatever it is they've created, whether it's digital or real, to the marketplace? You have about ten to fifteen seconds.

[Paul Davidson]

In the previous government, one of the Hon. Jim Flaherty's great legacies was to create a $400-million venture capital fund in this country, and that's a critical component of the innovation economy. There's still more to do to grow the venture capital side in this economy.

I'll also add that universities like Ryerson and others are creating their own VC funds within the university to support the students. That's really exciting to watch. So if the committee gets a chance to travel consider visiting the Digital Media Zone at Ryerson.

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Jowhari, you have five minutes.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon. I want to go back to the creative and entrepreneurial citizens, which is one of the key pillars in our innovation agenda. One of the key drivers under that pillar is skilled entrepreneurs and creative innovators. We spent a lot of time talking about the skills. You nicely dissected it for us. You said it's going to come from a combination of a program that they go through and also co-op programs and having opportunity. We talked about innovators, research, basic research, applied research, and partnering with the industry. One of the areas that all three of you touched, but it was touched on lightly in my point of view, is entrepreneurship. You all mentioned that there is some school of entrepreneurs or there are entrepreneurial skills. Paul touched on it, saying that is the key, that we need to think beyond them graduating and just finding a job, and that if they can't find it they should be the creator of the jobs.

My question is how do you define entrepreneurial, and please explain to me what programs do you have that include the sense of entrepreneurship, and having the right tools such as the instructors, and connection with the industry, to be able to bring that sense, because I struggled with the entrepreneurship when I transitioned from a job in to becoming a business owner.

[Paul Davidson]

There's so much to talk about here and I don't want to dominate so just cut me off, folks. I mentioned that Ryerson's Digital Media Zone is a place where they bring undergraduate students, faculty lawyers, IP lawyers, and venture capitalists together and create businesses. I've forgotten the most precise number, 25 to 30 businesses in the last recent period, where again it's outside the bounds of a traditional classroom. It is really happening in real time. It's giving the young kids a ticket to go meet venture capitalists in California and come back with a big deal. Or if you look at SFU and UIT and Concordia's entrepreneurial space, at SFU every student at the university now has an opportunity to get an entrepreneurial certificate, and for those who are in STEM there's a master's initiative that teaches them the business basics that they're going to need to apply those skills.

Maryam Sadeghi, is a woman who developed a cancer-solving mole scanner. She came to Canada and she found out about Simon Fraser from our website. She could have gone to Stanford. At SFU she got the skills she needed to create a business that's now getting FDA approval on her treatments. It is a different kind of campus from even a few years ago.

[Dr. MaryLynn West-Moynes]

We've embedded entrepreneurial objectives into every program, every one of 120 programs. I used to say colleges and universities were trying to get out ahead of who was going to be the best at entrepreneurship. Everybody needs to own this space. There's skill that you need to understand it. There's an ability to go for services. You need mentorship and you need capital, and we need centres on our campuses I believe. We've been fortunate; we had a philanthropist who was an entrepreneur who gave us money to do that. He has ensured our students have access to a mentor, they have access to some very minor small bit of money to inculcate and move forward with their product, and they have support to ongoing services. The thing that I think is missing right now is linking that with the research and innovation space. It's cyclic.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

That's actually nicely done on page 110 of the “2016 Federal Budget”, which is in front of all of us on this side.

I want to touch on something. Where do you think the government enablers come in? We talked about partnership, but what I didn't hear is where the government comes in and where the expertise comes in that says, “Now that you understand the IP, now that you've developed a sense, these are the government programs that are available to help you take it to—whether it's incubation or whether it's scale up or whether it is”—

[Paul Davidson]

I'll mention four quick things. Promote work-integrated learning, not only in STEM, but across all disciplines. Increase the support for accelerators and incubators, because that's making a transformative [Inaudible—Editor]. Work on those long-standing recommendations about how to encourage business investment, because we've gone from 16th in the world to 26th and we can do everything in the world but we need that resource. Finally, invest in the fundamentals of research and innovation as you have over the last decade.