Industry Committee on Feb. 26th, 2019

[Stephen Laskowski]

I'm getting there.

What's happening is that there are thousands of drivers who work for these hundreds of trucking companies that have said, “No, you don't have to take any risk; you're going to incorporate yourself.” Then Steve Laskowski incorporates himself and he is a small business.

They don't pay for a truck, they don't pay for the fuel, they don't pay for the licence plates. They basically bring a pair of boots to work and they're going to deduct all the things that Jane gets to deduct because she takes risk and all the rest of it as our small members do.

However, they take no risk, none. They are getting all the benefit of the tax system of a small business, with none of the risk, and we expect it's costing the taxpayers of Canada over $1 billion at a minimum.

In terms of a level playing field, imagine being a small employer. That small employer is saying to you, “I take on all this risk, for what? I can go down the street and just incorporate myself for $300 and I can get all the deductions.”

To CRA's benefit, last year they stepped in and said, “No, these people are not owner-operators; they do not own a truck, they do not buy plates, they do not do all this and take the risk.”

They are what's referred to as a personal services business and not eligible for any of the small business deductions, but now, the issue for us in 2019 is to enforce the law.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Okay, I have it. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

Mr. Masse, you have two minutes.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Mr. Freeborn, with regard to safety standards and enforcement, what are the three priorities in terms of consistency, especially for those who might not be following regulatory regimes, using lack of enforcement as an incentive for getting into a market or undercutting the competition that's following proper standards?

[Kevin Freeborn]

With regard to the food service industry and the area we focus on, the regulations require that one person per shift be certified as a food handler. The idea is that, in most jurisdictions, you'll be required to have at least one person present during the preparation and service of food who has some education and knowledge about food safety in the operations. That's currently the standard across Canada, as far as it goes.

The way they get their certification is quite diverse. There are a lot of private sector organizations, such as ourselves, that develop and deliver training and certification, as long as that certification has been approved or recognized by all of the different jurisdictions across Canada that require it.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

What do you think the compliance is in the industry, though? Obviously, there is a cost to invest in your service—in training and so forth. It has to be passed on to the customers. What do you think the compliance is in the general market?

[Kevin Freeborn]

I think the compliance amongst larger players is much higher because they view it as a risk management thing. They want to make sure they're compliant.

With the vast majority of small businesses across Canada, the question would sometimes be whether they are even aware that there's a legal requirement. There has to be education about what is required.

The health authorities do a lot of this work. When they do inspections, they cite organizations. The largest number of people who would probably still need to seek compliance would be the small businesses, where the impact of the cost associated with this is felt. If they can avoid spending money in an area, then obviously that puts more money on the bottom line.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Would it be fair to argue that education...? Or is it willful ignorance—ignorance is bliss—that is happening? A significant thing that has been raised to me over the years is that those who are following the law and the regulations and investing in those things have a hard time competing with those who aren't.

Is it just a matter of education, or is it a combination of education and a little bit of enforcement to make sure that the bad operators aren't rewarded?

I think that's what we're really trying to get at. Like a lot of things, it's the policing component. How much do you invest in that versus education?

[Kevin Freeborn]

There is definitely a requirement for policing. In fact, I think there is a requirement for legislation. Over the years, we've seen that in jurisdictions where there was no legislation with regard to food handler certification, the number of people who got certified went way up when legislation came into play.

Number one is that they weren't getting certified if there was no legislation. One of the challenges we also see is that in order for enforcement to happen, you need the people to do that. One small example is if the environmental health officers or health inspectors are spending their time trying to figure out how to...and evaluating programs that are put on their desk for approval, they are not in the field enforcing those regulations.

That's where more enforcement is necessary. We probably need to look at other areas where we can take stuff away to allow that enforcement to happen.

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

Thank you.

It looks like we have votes. I was going to ask you a question, Mr. Freeborn, but perhaps you can submit the answer to our clerk.

In the case of an American company called ServSafe that does training up here, could you let us know how they get certification in Canada? Their standards are actually a little bit different. I wanted to ask that question, but I can't; we have to go to a vote now.

Thank you all very much for your presentations. They were very informative.

I want to remind the committee that on Thursday, the meeting room has been changed to room 410.

Thank you again.