Evidence of meeting #20 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was vehicles.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Chandra Arya Liberal Nepean, ON
With the few seconds I have left, I would go back to Mr. Dias.
When I said that I disagree with you about the availability of a skilled workforce, what I hear from the industry is that whether it's a radio-frequency hardware design engineer or a person who has experience in robotics, we don't have the talent here. Our universities are still not producing the kinds of graduates that the industry can absorb directly.
National President, Unifor
There is no question, it's because there hasn't been a discussion about what the requirements are going to mean for the future. Academia has not trained people to deal with the changes.
Let me suggest that if you want a solution and you want to train young people for new technology, tie in unemployment insurance with the length of their educational program. If they're in an apprenticeship for two or three years, keep them on unemployment insurance during that time. That's a real solution.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Dan Ruimy
Thank you very much.
We're going to move to Mr. Lobb.
You have seven minutes—sorry, five minutes.
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
I think you said seven, Mr. Chair, so I'm going to take you at your word.
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
Thanks, everybody, for being here today.
Just for the record—full disclosure—I started my working career in manufacturing and was a card-carrying CAW member and also a shift steward. That goes back quite a few years, to Wingham, at—
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
Yes, Wescast.
The one thing I want to ask you about, Jerry, is regarding the comments on the auto innovation fund. I think your comments were that it was a disaster or something like that—
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
Was it disappointing to see in the budget—and I'm not trying to play games here—that it was extended for three years?
National President, Unifor
Yes, absolutely it was a disappointment. I want to go to a more conducive program that is more grant based.
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
I went to university in Tennessee and played baseball down there. Around that time, in Smyrna, Tennessee, they were building the Saturn plant. That's going back quite a long time. They were investing. The state was investing massive amounts of money. Also, in Alabama, where my teammates were from, they were building a Mercedes plant, and the State of Alabama was putting massive amounts of money into the building of this factory.
We don't really do that here, in a true fund to actually entice people to make new builds. I've always thought that should be a component of what we're doing here as a federal government. Forget the provinces. If they're not interested, we'll do it ourselves as a federal government.
Is that something you would like to see? Do you think there's any benefit to that? From your chair, what do you see?
National President, Unifor
You were with the previous government, right? That's right. That's music to my ears.
I'm kidding with you, by the way.
National President, Unifor
The reality is that we need the federal government to put in place a grant program like there is provincially. Everybody knows the numbers. They know what the payback is. The payback is very quick, and everybody knows what the offsets are for their community for the long term. So yes, I am in a situation where I am advocating for a more grant-based program like they have in the successful nations around the world that have automotive plants.
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
Okay.
Dianne, what's your thought? There are other costs, obviously, but would that help? I'm not putting you on the spot here, but is that something that would help in making your decision for Ford to make investments in Canada?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Ford Motor Company of Canada Limited
I would say two things. We have to protect what we have. Right now, I think we have to really concentrate on what we have.
I think there were two things that were disappointing about the $1 billion announcement on the automotive innovation fund. A billion dollars over 10 years seems like a lot of money, but it's $100 million a year. I mentioned that in 2014 there was $18 billion spent just in North America on auto investments. Not only is the fund not competitive, based on the dollars being spent in this space, but also, as we've talked about, a grant would be much more competitive versus other jurisdictions.
National President, Unifor
Just to talk about the money, to complement what she's saying, $100 million a year is a spit in the bucket. Ford invested almost $1 billion in the platform they have in place right now. Chrysler has invested about $3.5 billion in the last few years. GM invested about $350 million in their CAMI operations. You're talking about $100 million a year.
Caroline Hughes Vice-President, Government Relations, Ford Motor Company of Canada Limited
May I just add to that on the structure of the program?
Today, the AIF is a loan and it's taxable. To put that in perspective, if we get $100 as a loan, we have to carry it on our balance sheet as a loan of $100, but we immediately have to pay the government back $25. We actually receive only $75 cash. We're carrying a debt of $100 on our balance sheet that sits there until we pay it back, and it ties up our ability to get credit from anybody else.
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
Yes, I've always felt, even though I was one of 166 or whatever it was, that in manufacturing and trying to entice companies to expand, or grow, or make new investments, we're kind of putting both hands behind our back and starting a fist fight, because everybody else is playing a game that we aren't playing. Then we wonder why we don't get any new investments in our country.
When we're talking about automotive, whether it's automotive parts manufacturers and companies like Wescast, where I used to work, or the larger manufacturers, that has to be the start of a sentence, the start of what we are going to do here. I don't know if it will be a recommendation that comes out of this, but it has to be a new program that is world-class competitive. In addition to that, there's the Fraunhofer example in Germany. I think we have one Fraunhofer at Western. That has to be another thing: to partner with automotive companies so that we have the plants here but those plants are staying in cutting-edge, leading-edge, and high-end manufacturing.
I don't know if my time's up, but—
National President, Unifor
By the way, I take back all those terrible things I've said about you.
Liberal