Industry Committee on Sept. 26th, 2016

[Alex Nuttall, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

—either vote to go in camera or vote on the actual motion itself, we can proceed. Trying to figure out a loophole to get around having a vote on something...perhaps the rules are in place for a reason. Maybe I'm wrong.

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

If I understand this correctly, Mr. Baylis has asked that the debate be now adjourned, which....

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

We are allowed to do that and we can vote on it.

Yes, sir?

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

The way Mr. Baylis phrased the question—and we can go back and check the record if you like—was not what I know he was trying to do, so it's not what you can do.

What he said was, “I move that we defer the debate and talk at a later time.” He did not ask to call the question to go in camera, and there is a distinct difference. It was a nice sentiment that he had, but that is not what he was trying to do. What he did do was make two distinct differences, and all the members around the table recognize that.

I will also point out that it's now six minutes since the last time I said we should have the vote, so let's just have the vote. If you vote it down, then that's fine. We can have our witnesses carry on. If you want to vote against sitting in camera, then that's fine too, but people will still know that you voted against having a meeting or a study on the independence of Stats Canada.

Isn't it ironic that when we're trying to shed some light here on the integrity of our entire reporting mechanism in this department and the vote will take just 20 or 30 seconds, members of the Liberal party, despite all the stuff they preach constantly about transparency and science, when it comes time to have a vote on that, want to hide and go in camera to have the vote. That's unfortunate, because the vote will literally take 30 seconds. It's almost a quarter to four now, and we could have already had the vote.

I would just say that we have the vote.

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

I will throw in that what you're trying to do is force us to vote on something that we have not discussed, and I don't think anybody is prepared to vote on something that has not been discussed.

Mr. Baylis, you had another...?

[Frank Baylis, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

I'm going to ask the clerk to give me directions. I'm asking for this to be adjourned, period. My understanding—

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

Then it's that the debate now be adjourned—

[Frank Baylis, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

I have the floor right now.

I understand Mr. Lobb has machinations and knows the game and system better than I do.

My question was simple. If I have to rephrase it—and if it's not been phrased correctly, and as Mr. Lobb pointed out, I didn't phrase it correctly—I am asking for this to be adjourned so we can get back to the business at hand. I can't ask for it any more clearly. I am asking for a vote—

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

That the debate now be adjourned.

[Frank Baylis, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

—and I am told it's a non-debatable motion. It has to be voted on immediately. It's not up for discussion. It's not up for anything It's not up for comments. I am asking whether we can have a vote to adjourn that motion right now—to adjourn the debate.

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

Excuse me; let's not break it down here.

[Alex Nuttall, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

I have a question. First of all, I think I'm on the speaker's list from before, but just in case I'm not, is this debatable?

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

No.

[Alex Nuttall, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

When this motion comes forward, and somebody's on the speaker's list, do they get bumped, or do I still get my position to speak?

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

It's gone for the day.

[Alex Nuttall, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

What we're seeing here is the prevention of debate, the prevention of even talking about—

[Frank Baylis, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

If I understand, there's no—

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

Mr. Baylis, please....

Mr. Baylis has asked for the debate to be adjourned, and that is a non-debatable motion. We will adjourn this and we will move on with our questioning.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

On a point of order, do we not have to have a vote?

You can't adjourn debate. You can ask to go in camera, but if the chair gave me the floor and I introduced my motion for discussion, then we have the floor. We have a speakers list, and we are now debating my motion that I presented. That is in order. Mr. Baylis cannot say, “Let's just adjourn this and get onto something else.” He cannot do that. He can ask to go into camera.

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

He can do a dilatory motion.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

I don't believe he can. I would ask the clerk, because I'd be interested in the answer.

It just seems strange to me. We have a motion that's on the floor. The motion is in order; we've established that. We have a speakers list, and my recollection—and the clerk knows a lot more about this than I do—is that there are only two or three things that can happen. One is that at 5:30 we run out of time debating the motion; another is that we vote on the motion; another is that Mr. Baylis asks for a vote to go in camera. I believe it would be in order if he asked that, if he did not want to further debate this.

As long as we have a speakers list, there is no way to adjourn this, in my understanding. Mr. Nuttall is also on the speakers list.

If the clerk could show me a section in O'Brien and Bosc that covers adjourning a motion, I'd be interested to see it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

I can point that out to you. It's on page 1057:

“That the debate be now adjourned”:

A member who moves “That the debate now be adjourned” wishes to temporarily suspend debate underway on a motion or study. If the motion is carried, debate on the motion or study ceases and the committee moves on to the next agenda item.

That is what has happened.

[An hon. member]

I call for the vote.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

He moved it, and when he moves it, there is no further debate and you call the question at that time.