Industry Committee on Nov. 28th, 2016

[Alex Nuttall, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

Earlier this year, I put forward a motion to have the committee investigate the carbon tax and the effect on our economy. We know how much it is going to pull out of the economy—about $36 billion a year. Is there money set aside in the supplementals to help Canadians who lose their jobs when this new tax is implemented?

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

Our government has been very clear about putting a price on pollution. We think that it drives innovation. As the ministry responsible for innovation, science, and economic development, we recognize that we need more money in R and D. We need to find new solutions so that we can not only help create a cleaner environment in Canada, but become more export-oriented. Keeping that in mind, we really work with our regional development agencies to target and focus investments in clean technology. That's one area.

We have also allocated $1 billion in our budget to help, again, make investments in clean technologies. The idea is that the government has a meaningful role to play, to develop a partnership to create jobs. We are really focused on clean growth in jobs and on maintaining and enhancing our quality and standard of living.

[Alex Nuttall, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

On that, you said earlier that governments aren't in the business of creating jobs; they are in the business of creating the environment for jobs. Then you said that the government “has a meaningful role to play” in creating jobs, but you won't say how many jobs you hope to create next year.

Will you tell us how many jobs you are expecting the carbon tax to kill in the next five years so that we can include that in our estimates of where the economy is going?

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

I believe putting a price on pollution drives innovation, which improves our productivity and competitiveness, which creates robust growth and creates jobs. Based on that philosophy, we already work with industry, other sectors, and other levels of government, and we have created 139,600 jobs since we've taken office. We believe we'll maintain that level of momentum, but I also acknowledge that there are global factors at play. Canada is not an island. It really depends on global growth and how other markets operate, but I am confident that we have strong policies in place, investments in infrastructure, as I alluded to—$180 billion, which is significant in creating jobs—and, of course, the innovation agenda, which will create jobs as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

Thank you very much.

We're going to move to Mr. Masse for seven minutes.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Minister, for being here. It's a very difficult job that you have. You cover a lot of files. There's no doubt about that.

I want to be clear in terms of where you stand as an individual and about definitions. In your remarks you mentioned well-paying jobs and the middle class. How do you define a well-paying job? What is it that you and the ministry are looking for in terms of remuneration for employment? In terms of trying to create jobs here, how do you define what that means?

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

My definition of a good quality job is that individuals have an opportunity to do better going forward. The idea is that the status quo is okay, but they can do better. How do we create opportunities for people to continue to grow and earn more money? That's really what I'm focused on. I'm focused on it when it comes to jobs, and I'm focused on it when it comes to even companies or high-growth firms. We're always looking for opportunities for people to make more money, to earn more money. Obviously, that is a key part of our criteria.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

With all due respect, jobs like that.... For me, it's whether or not you can pay a mortgage, whether you can send your kids to university or college, and whether you have the right to participate in the general economy. That's one of the reasons, in terms of my region, I'm more concerned about the fall of the auto industry. We have dropped to 10th, as I mentioned in the House of Commons today. As well, too, you mentioned your upcoming trade mission to India. I worry about a national auto strategy, and here's the reason, Mr. Minister.

I was approached the other day at a hockey rink by an engineer who is training someone from India who has come over to basically take his job. The concern I have is these different trade missions we have and whether or not they lead to the value-added jobs back in our country. Engineering is a pretty significant value-added job. He works in a high-needed area. He designs and manufactures auto parts, and meanwhile, he's training the person who has come over to Canada to take his job.

What do I say to someone like him who's losing their job? Do you actually review these trips? Has that been done in terms of a full auditing of what comes in return and what we lose? What do we say to that person right now? I'll see him this week.

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

I'm glad you asked that question. I have two perspectives on it.

First of all, with respect to the challenges in Windsor and within southwestern Ontario around the auto sector, it is a really important file for me and for this government, and we have a plan. That is why we extended the automotive innovation fund. That is why we're actively engaged with companies and the automotive supplier innovation fund. That is why, for example, if you look at supplementary estimates (B), we have an amount allocated for the automotive innovation fund and automotive innovation office. That's really to create the investment attraction office. All these are part of a game plan that we have to work with the auto sector, to work with labour, to bring in investments and create jobs.

What I would say is this. If you speak to labour, if you speak to the companies, they recognize the government has stepped up its game, and we're making investments.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

I'm speaking to a father who has a child in hockey. Those are great. But the thing is, why aren't those funds being exhausted or used by the companies?

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

They will be. As you know, as these investment arrangements with the companies and with the unions are now starting to unfold.... We were very much engaged with the unions, very much engaged with the companies. We're going to be at the table. We want to participate. We're going to deploy these funds. We want to create jobs.

If you look at—

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Aren't you concerned that we actually have jobs that are value added, that we're trying to attract, that are now going to other countries? That's what's happening.

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

No, I think that's a challenge. I think the rise of protectionism and some of the rhetoric we've heard in the U.S., for example, and what we saw with Brexit, speaks to that thinking. I understand the anxieties around that, and I understand the challenges. I'm not being dismissive about it at all. But I do fundamentally believe that, as a country of 35 million people, if we are to succeed, maintain our standard of living, and grow, we need to bring in investments. We need to focus and build partnerships with industry to create jobs.

The fact that our government has played a more active role in doing that, I think, sends a clear signal that we're open for business, open to ideas, open to people, and open to investments, which is good for job creation.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

With all that being said, though, wouldn't a national auto policy work in terms of the current thing we're doing now? Duguid from Ontario has been very clear dismissing that idea. Wouldn't a national auto strategy that's being called for by the union....?

By the way, it was the workers. I think this is an important point. When the workers went into negotiations, they chose future for jobs for other people over their own monetary returns. They said to the companies and to their union that they wanted those jobs protected for the future, not extra raises or benefits. They have a billion dollars on the table. We haven't see that use in the past taking place.

We have the chambers of commerce onside. We have the auto companies onside. Some of these companies don't have the senior officials or presidents who come from Canada anymore. Wouldn't a national auto policy be at least a logical way to approach and to go with this? Why would your colleague in Ontario not support that? Do you support a national auto policy that is being called for by others?

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

I think what people want is action. I think what people want is a government playing a meaningful role and delivering results.

To highlight that, and you mentioned the questions you raised about the auto file in the House of Commons, I too had the opportunity to talk about GM Canada and the thousand engineers who are coming to Canada—

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

But that was done with no government money. There was no government money in that.

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

You asked about engineering before, so I just want to highlight that. Those one thousand engineering jobs are coming to Canada because the car of the future is being built in Canada.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Yes, but that's a bad example. That's not the innovation funds. That's a bad example, because it was—

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

No, but I think it speaks to the engineering side, the individual we talked about that—

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

I don't mean to interrupt you, but you weren't involved. You're raising about a thousand jobs that had no government participation at all. That's a serious problem for some plan that can—

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

If you ask GM why they made that investment in Canada, they say it's because of the innovation policies that exist here, because of the talent pool access that they have, both from a domestic academic perspective and through immigration policy. It's the fact that we have 700 suppliers, the fact that we have 40 academic institutions that have some sort of relationship when it comes to the auto file. It's the fact that we have the second-largest automotive jurisdiction in North America. Those are the reasons.

They know there is a government that's going to be at the table working with them making investments. That is why GM Canada is making those investments. That is why we have, going forward—

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Okay, but do you believe in a national auto policy?

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

I believe in a government that's going to take meaningful action to bring results, and that's exactly what we're doing on the automotive innovation fund, the automotive supplier innovation program, and the amount of money that we've included here for an attractive automotive investment office. We're competing with Mexico and the U.S. and other jurisdictions—

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Absolutely. In fact, we're losing now, big time.

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

In fact, this year was a very historic year in automotive.