Industry Committee on March 7th, 2017

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

Just to be clear, we are where we are. We're not bringing more witnesses back. We're not bringing more people back to speak to it. We're at debate stage. We've had witnesses. We're on amendments. There have been comments from both sides, but this is where we are. At some point we will be voting on the amendments.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

With all due respect, Mr. Chair, we have Mr. Schaan here, we have our legislative clerk here, we have two analysts here, and we have our clerk here. Their roles are to provide us with information and clarification on the amendments and the clauses, and they've done a wonderful job today.

However, this is one issue where I don't know that they can provide us with further information, because I don't think they can read the minister's mind or the deputy minister's mind. Maybe the parliamentary secretaries have that ability, but they haven't presented anything in the last half an hour, or even commented on their ability to present something.

I get your point. We're here and we're debating the amendment. We're all clear on that. However, they have the opportunity—before we vote on any one of these three amendments—to present us with the proposed regulation, a draft regulation. They have the ability to tell us, “Look, we can't do it today. We'll go back and we'll see. We'll come back to you on Thursday or Wednesday or what have you and let you know.” We haven't heard any of this.

I think there are probably at least two members on this committee who really aren't prepared to move forward until we hear something or see something that would indicate to us that we can vote on this or dispose of this in good faith.

I appreciate your points though, Mr. Chair, with all due respect.

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

Thank you.

Mr. Dreeshen.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer—Mountain View, AB]

I'm taking a look at the time that we have left for trying to work our way through this, and we're talking about amendments that might be required. I'm curious whether perhaps Ms. May might consider removing this amendment, so that we could then address something that we would talk about another day. I have some thoughts on how we could incorporate the language that we have, but I'd be willing to talk to and speak to amendments for Mr. Masse that would include all of the things that we have in the three.

I think if this drags on to another day and so on, it might be more convenient and easier for us to deal with bringing the three together. We could do that through Mr. Masse's amendment and then perhaps make things run a little smoother.

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

As per my original instructions, she wouldn't be able to remove it. There would have to be unanimous consent to remove that.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer—Mountain View, AB]

I'm asking whether or not she would be amenable to that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

We can certainly put that to....

Mr. Masse is next.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

I'm fine with the Green Party amendment, to be clear. We're on that, and if we want to amend that, I'm open to amendments. I think it encompasses....

I go back to what has really happened out there. Frank talked about the real world. Let's talk about the real world and diversity in Montreal right now. Visible minority individuals made up 20% of greater Montreal's total population in 2015—those are the latest numbers available—but accounted for only 4.8% of the leadership positions. That's for all positions of leadership, from the political through to the entire realm and through the corporate sector. The corporate sector had the lowest representation at 1.7%.

Visible minorities made up 20%-plus of the population in 2015, yet had less than 2% representation on corporate boards. That's an abomination. That's a serious structural problem that's going on and it needs some adjustment. It needs some leadership. It needs some new ingenuity to get somewhere. That's where this goes. It doesn't pass this to regulations. It says from Parliament that we care about this issue, that we think it's important and we're going to do it.

The fact of the matter is that you have the same situation happening in Toronto, where diversity on corporate boards and private boards is taking a plunge in many respects. It's the same with regard to our country in many respects. This information comes from the Diversity Institute. You can take a look at it. It's available for everybody.

We know that we have significant racial and ethnic problems in terms of representation on corporate boards. Yes, corporations will sell their goods and their products to anybody. They don't check that at the counter when people go through and purchase the stuff, but the fact of the matter is that they are not, on the boards, representing all people. Again, that's why for some of these things that we're compiling here, we tried to address them in previous amendments. Whether those amendments were on the six years, where you have at least a moment, a breath of recess, to make sure of whether you're going to change that board of directors or not, or at least bring in somebody new, or whether you have the minister get them to explain a bit more appropriately....

This is a complete abdication of responsibility, knowing the obvious facts in front of us that have been presented not only here but on the streets of our communities. The fact of the matter is that we have a chance here to actually do something about this.

I'm surprised. I guess the biggest joke is going to be “How many Liberals does it take to stand up for diversity or for gender rights?” Well, it's not going to be nine, because we have nine here. It's going to be 10 at least—

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

Keep decorum, please, and no name-calling. We don't need to go down that road.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Okay. I apologize if I've offended anybody, Mr. Chair. I guess I wanted to explain why I'm passionate about this.

At any rate, it is something that we actually control. We have a sense right now, a moment, to pass legislation that includes this element, which is the appropriate vehicle to do so. It has left open that opportunity in terms of what's been presented. A lot of things have been closed to us. That's why I've being going through some of the amendments that I had previously. They have had some problems, which the chair has overruled, so I've let them go on that. But on this one I'm not letting go, in the sense that I believe this is one of the reasons why I'm here in Parliament.

I have a son and daughter of mixed race and they see it themselves, through their lives. We still haven't gotten past this. It's still an issue. I've grown up with it. It's going to be my 20th wedding anniversary tomorrow, and I remember the days of holding hands with my spouse and having people stare at us. That's a modest issue in terms of the discrimination that's faced out there. It doesn't count—

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

It's just because you're so handsome.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

I don't get that often.

[Frank Baylis, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

I'll vote on that.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

All right, all right. We're running out of time.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

I didn't want to try to make this personal. I guess my view in terms of how I represent things is that if you are not doing anything and you're passive-aggressive in regard to something, it's worse than actually being aggressive, because then we don't know the enemy in front of us. The enemy could be beside you by not taking action and not doing the things that we have within our capability. That can make a difference.

This will lead the minister to have a statement capability in this, to say that we will not leave this to regulations, that we will not leave this, that we're going to get this. In this day and age, Parliament is going to say, “You know what? We can't figure out what diversity, racial inclusion, and gender inclusion really mean, so we're going to put an ad in the paper, seek people's opinions on it, and then come forward and tell us what that means.” That's what we're really doing here.

I see the hand of the chair, so I....

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

We're actually out of time.

Certainly, we're going to have this debate continue. As chair, I will remind everybody that our debate needs to be relevant and non-repetitive. We can't keep saying that on the other side they're not listening. You said it once. You said it twice. You said it three times. That I will rule on, because that's enough with that. If you have new information, if you have new debate—

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Fair enough.

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

—then, please, bring it forward.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

I disagree with that, but that's the way—

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

That's okay. You can disagree with me.

Thank you very much for the progress we have made today. I'm looking forward to Thursday.

The meeting is adjourned.