Evidence of meeting #65 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was patent.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
Chandra Arya Liberal Nepean, ON
You seem to be a bit hesitant to state that whenever the federal government funds fully or partially we should get back the output. You seem to say that it's all patented, and people can go and search.
9:50 a.m.
Vice-President, Intellectual Property Management, Innovate Calgary
Oh, you mean the reporting back to the government. No, I have no problem with that. I've worked in the U.S. for most of my career, and reporting is a very small component. If it would be useful to the government, then I'd be all for it.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
Chandra Arya Liberal Nepean, ON
Okay.
Mr. Hinton, I will ask you the same thing about technology transfer and knowledge transfer.
9:50 a.m.
Intellectual Property Lawyer, Bereskin & Parr LLP, Advisor, Council of Canadian Innovators, As an Individual
You can see this as a great IP strategy for foreign tech firms. The idea is that you can buy off most of the research by getting one researcher in a key technology area and having them report back to the mother ship with all of the research that the institute is doing. They bring this information back and strategically patent the commercial aspects. This is what we've seen with many big tech companies with the resources and sophistication to outgun.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
Chandra Arya Liberal Nepean, ON
Mr. Hinton, you also mentioned that 58% of the Canadian IP generated is owned by foreign companies. What can we do? We know it should be available for Canadian companies because the Canadian taxpayer investment is there. What is there that we can do by law to prevent this?
9:50 a.m.
Intellectual Property Lawyer, Bereskin & Parr LLP, Advisor, Council of Canadian Innovators, As an Individual
As I was commenting, many of the issues we're running into are international. We're dealing in international markets, so the legal mechanisms and the levers of the Canadian patent system are probably not going to do a lot. We have to think of other mechanisms that we can put into place. The patent fund is one example . Funding mechanisms, I think, are very important, and also ensuring that if we're funding certain resources and technology development, we make sure that we're being very shrewd about who is going to be able to use it and where the benefits are going to flow.
I think it's more a funding issue than a legislative one.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
Thank you very much.
Mr. Susalka, I want to ask you about the U.S. Chamber of Commerce international IP index. You would be familiar with that, of course. Canada is pretty far down the list, probably where a developed country should be, with many universities and some very successful high-tech companies. From an American perspective, looking at a Canadian issue, where is this relatively low ranking coming from?
9:50 a.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Association of University Technology Managers
There are a number of factors in play. I mentioned a couple in terms of the percentage difference.
I would have to see exactly the calculations they use, but aspects that might influence this would be the number of inventions and patent applications that are developed and start-up companies that are formed.
I'd have to know a little more about exactly how those calculations occurred and how they relate. We only have a limited slice of Canadian technology transfer data at AUTM.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
Right.
I wanted to get your thoughts on the World Intellectual Property Organization and its effectiveness in trying to streamline the intellectual property protocol for 184 countries.
9:50 a.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Association of University Technology Managers
WIPO is a wonderful resource for academic technology transfer organizations, allowing a single patent application in the home language to be filed and retain rights in, as you mentioned, over 180 countries worldwide. That has been a great accelerator of protecting intellectual property that was developed in a particular country, be it Canada or the United States, and enabling more efficient protection of that invention in countries around the world.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
Okay.
I read an article that I don't think is anecdotal. It's probably true that the Chinese, during their negotiations over the Paris climate accord, were really wanting to have access to some of General Electric's water technology. That was one of the terms in the negotiations of their signing on.
Do you see treaties like this as being problematic for protecting IP, or do you see them as a way to reinforce and strengthen it?
9:55 a.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Association of University Technology Managers
I would hope the ultimate goal is to reinforce and strengthen IP between those countries. I'm not familiar with that particular story. Again, the purpose of these multinational agreements is to strengthen the IP across the globe, so that would be my hope going forward. Again, I'm not familiar with that particular clause or piece.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
Okay.
I have one last question here, because my time will run out.
I recognize that Canada has a lot to do and can do a lot to improve its IP protocols, etc., but unless the rest of the world—countries like China, Vietnam, and others probably too numerous to mention—really buys into the whole idea of protecting and respecting other countries' IP, are we spinning our tires here? What can we realistically do?
9:55 a.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Association of University Technology Managers
Are you there?
I'm sorry. I believe I heard your question, but would you mind repeating it one more time at your end?
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
Okay. You'll be pleased to know that our next study is strengthening the broadband service in Canada.
9:55 a.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
I can sum up the question. Countries like China, Vietnam, and others really have had trouble respecting the IP rights and technology of other countries when they're doing business there. In Canada we can do whatever we like, and we will, but are we spinning our tires, in a sense, unless those countries really come along and get with it?
9:55 a.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Association of University Technology Managers
Got it.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
I'm starting to wonder if the Chinese are hacking our system here.
9:55 a.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Association of University Technology Managers
Over the last five to 10 years, the appreciation and understanding of intellectual property is diffusing throughout the world. Some of those countries, and other countries, are appreciating more and more the value of intellectual property. I think this will continue to improve as we go forward.
You mentioned WIPO earlier. WIPO does a great job of explaining the importance of strong intellectual property protection and systems. [Technical difficulty—Editor] They should continue to do what they are doing, and you will see that the rest of the world will appreciate more and more the value, and strengthen and enforce intellectual property rights worldwide.
9:55 a.m.
Vice-President, Intellectual Property Management, Innovate Calgary
Can I just add a little to that?
9:55 a.m.
Liberal
9:55 a.m.
Vice-President, Intellectual Property Management, Innovate Calgary
We have to remember that the intellectual property market is a worldwide market, and the intellectual property is going to go to the country and the business that is best able to develop it and deliver it to the population of the world. At Innovate Calgary, we have about 100 active licences in 24 countries. That's important to keep in mind.
Another thing that Steve mentioned was our start-up companies. We do quite well in Canada, relative to the U.S., in creating new companies. Things that we could measure in addition to the dollars, which we always look bad at, are jobs created, investment in these companies, and new products development. Again, as our companies mature, they often move to the U.S. because that's where the investment is. Just as the IP market is going to go where it can be invested in, our new companies are going to go there, too.
