Industry Committee on April 12th, 2016

[Dr. B. Mario Pinto]

That's a very good question. The answer is that it depends on the particular type of program. Let me talk about the first encounter between the academic and the industrial partner. This is called our engage program, and it's meant to be a very quick first date. We have built that program up. We have had over 6,900 of those engage grants since 2009.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

On those engage grants, then, what is the average?

[Dr. B. Mario Pinto]

The turnaround time is 21 days.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Twenty-one days. Is that to let them know that it's good to keep going with the application?

[Dr. B. Mario Pinto]

That's from application to funding.

We have a long way to go with some of our other strategic network programs, for example, or for the collaborative research development grants, because we have to evaluate many partners. We're working to reduce those times.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Of all the money you grant, what percentage would be for the 21 days?

[Dr. B. Mario Pinto]

I don't know offhand for the engage grants. Can anyone can help me—

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Would 5% of all the money you grant be granted in 21 days?

[Dr. B. Mario Pinto]

Let me just check.

[A voice]

It's 3%.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

It's 3%?

[Dr. B. Mario Pinto]

Yes.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

So for the other 97%, that's a lot more than 21 days. Of the other 97%, what is the average?

[Dr. B. Mario Pinto]

It's three to six months.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Then there are going to be some that are 12 months, 10 months, 11 months, and on and on. I'm not criticizing you. I'm just stating a fact.

The point is that on innovation, whether it's in software, which I used to work in, or automotive, which I also used to work in, you can understand that a lot of the time people who run these businesses can't wait six months to hear if a grant's going to get approved, because they could be out the door before that time comes.

What work will you be doing internally to ensure that due diligence is still being done but that the granting times are as efficient and as smooth as possible? You must hear these criticisms.

[Dr. B. Mario Pinto]

Yes, absolutely. I ran incubation and accelerator centres in my previous life, and I fully appreciate the problem.

We're working very hard to reduce the times while still maintaining the quality assurance of both the industrial and the academic partners. I think we're moving to a very streamlined approach, where we can have a pre-clearance, for example, through a letter of intent in some of our programs, so that we can do a first pass very quickly and then provide the necessary guidance to those partners to develop a more competitive proposal much faster.

I agree with you fully. We have to reduce those turnaround times—there's absolutely no doubt—and we're certainly working on it. We're also working on one application process with our partners, for example with Mitacs and with NRC IRAP, so that we can extend our runways, reducing the administrative burden with one application, and I think that will also go a long way.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Fair enough. We'd love to have you back in a year maybe, and see how the progress is working out on that.

Mr. Smith, I have a question for you. You were commenting on the real estate application you're working on right now. I would hope that you guys are working in partnership with CREA. I wonder how that relationship works, because of course we see their data produced every month. What relationship do you have with them and how are you working collaboratively with them?

[Wayne Smith]

We're well aware of the CREA index. We're also very well aware of the National Bank Teranet, I think, that produces an index of housing prices—

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Do you work now—

[Wayne Smith]

We're aware of their methods. We've looked at it with Finance Canada as to whether these indices on their own would meet the requirement, and the view was that the level of quality wasn't sufficient.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Are you saying that CREA's data is unreliable, their monthly data that they publish?

[Wayne Smith]

No. CREA's data may well be reliable for the purposes for which it was developed and intended, but for the purposes of—

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

I'm sorry. You have about 10 seconds.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Sorry, sir, but they report on sales, so I don't know how more accurate you could be than reporting on actual sales.

[Wayne Smith]

When you're building a price index, it's more about the issue of controlling for the variation and the quality of the housing. Otherwise, the price movements may simply be a change in the average quality of the housing. It's about controlling for those kinds of factors, and that is not their intent, so I'm not faulting them or suggesting that their data is unreliable for any purpose for which people may currently be using it.

As I said, in talking to Finance Canada, the sponsors of this particular project, the conclusion was that the data really wasn't quite robust enough for the purpose.