Industry Committee on Nov. 23rd, 2017

[Adam Scott, Acting Director General, Spectrum Licensing Policy Branch, Department of Industry]

There are a couple of technologies I can speak to on the wireless side that are extremely pertinent for some of our most remote communities, because a number are still reliant on satellite technology. We definitely have our eye on what's often called low earth orbit satellites in geostationary. We've now licensed two companies in Canada.

On the satellite side, licences typically come very early in the project cycle, so I don't want to give the sense that these are imminent, but we do have two, and these are satellites that don't have some of the latency problems of previous generations of satellites. They're lower to the ground, there are a lot more of them, and they are in constant rotation around the planet. They include good coverage of Canada. There is a lot of potential there, and also still a lot of challenges to work out.

Some big players are involved, but they're still working on their financing. They're sorting out the international regulations, which are complex on the satellite side. There is good progress there, and a lot of potential.

Another wireless innovation we're looking at is what's known as “TV white space”. For small rural providers in particular, this is an opportunity to gain access to spectrum that is traditionally designated for another purpose. If spectrum is designated for television broadcast but is not being currently used, they can consult a database that will confirm that there is no competing user of the spectrum and give them permission—essentially on the fly—to use that spectrum for a broadband connection. It's a way we can squeeze better productivity out of a limited resource in rural areas. We've just licensed our first database administrator, which means that by the 2018-19 framework we could see that deploying.

[Earl Dreeshen]

Mr. Seidl, you were the one who spoke about the 10 to 15 years to get everybody up to speed. I wonder if you could talk about what the CRTC is thinking about in that regard and maybe what initiatives or pressures they might want to put on some of the suppliers.

[Christopher Seidl]

When we made those projections, we did it based on the amount of funding that we put forward as well. We're trying to do the right balance of money that comes from the industry, which obviously might be passed on to consumers as well. Our existing local service subsidy, which we're planning to phase out, is about $100 million, so that's how we came to add about $100 million for broadband each year over a five-year period, ramping up slowly. We took that balance of that funding level with the private sector contribution.

Don't forget that the private sector is moving this forward as well in some of those areas around the larger cities, and even into some of the smaller communities. We see that deployment happening. We see the major telephone companies rolling out fibre to large and small communities now in different areas. All of that played into how we came to those numbers.

We can't predict the future, obviously. Technology is changing, and we've heard about low earth orbit satellites giving faster speeds and low latency in terms of delay. 5G technology will come on the wireless side as well. Backhaul is going to be very important for that, too, to get those bandwidths. With the technology developments, the continued market forces funding, as well as government support from all levels, we felt that we'd get there. Can it go faster? Potentially, but still there's a very large gap when you talk about the large distances that we have in this country.

[Earl Dreeshen]

The other thing I want to ask about is the key reason for our looking at this: the new technologies that are out in the agricultural field. It's not just what's out there in agriculture, but also things that will be out there in forestry and mining. All of these things are expanding. They are looking for new technologies. That way they become more efficient and they have less environmental impact. All of these types of things are important.

That's why I'm curious whether, in the discussions that have taken place, there has been an adequate focus on that type of new technology and on the requirements that we give it. I understand, and it was mentioned, that in the private sector there would be a lot of dollars invested into suburbia and so on because that's where you can make the most money. Is there really a focus on the needs of the rural and remote areas in the future, on the new types of technologies and operations that are required?

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

If anybody wants to do a quick answer, please be very brief.

[Christopher Seidl]

One quick answer is that when we included wireless as part of our basic service, we captured it as the latest technology, so that will evolve over time. We expect to continue to support the evolution of new technologies out into covering all areas, including major roads, which would cover a lot of those mining and agricultural sections.

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

Thank you.

We're going to move over to Mr. Johns.

You have seven minutes.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

It's great to be here joining you on the committee today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

Welcome.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

My questions are primarily going to be focused on coastal British Columbia and rural and indigenous communities.

We know the lack of access creates a digital divide, and there are significant challenges in coastal British Columbia. I'd like to hear you speak a little bit more about how you're prioritizing and making sure that indigenous communities are getting access, especially coastal communities.

[Susan Hart]

We have a very close working relationship with all of the provinces and territories in the rollout of the program, especially with British Columbia. British Columbia also has some funding for a broadband program. We have a very good working relationship with them.

Understanding the priorities of the province and the coastal area along the B.C. coast is definitely a priority, as is looking at what the gaps are. A lot of effort has taken place to look at the gaps and talk about priorities. We've even had their staff come and work in our offices to exchange learning and information. That's how closely we work with them.

With regard to the applications in B.C., we talk about them with the government to have a coordinated approach. They're still being looked at, so we haven't seen announcements yet in British Columbia,. That's to come, because every province will benefit from Connect to Innovate, and I want to assure you that we are in close working collaboration with the government and that the coastal part of the province is a priority. We've looked at the gaps in those areas. It's to maximize success that we work closely with the provinces.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

In terms of priorities, a lot of those remote indigenous communities in coastal British Columbia have had limited access to resources. They're facing huge challenges. The digital divide is real, and it needs to be a priority. It's an opportunity to be a cornerstone of reconciliation in terms of economic development.

I'm going to read a quote from Denise Williams. She's the first nations technology council executive director, and she said:

First Nations communities continue to receive the poorest access to Internet and mobile connectivity. Federal and provincial governments are moving on major infrastructure and innovation projects across the country that have the potential to either create equality in Canada, or drastically exacerbate the digital divide, potentially disenfranchising generations of Indigenous people.

Maybe you could highlight how you are deciding where you're putting your capital. Is reconciliation a part of that process in terms of prioritizing?

[Susan Hart]

With regard to how the program will help indigenous communities, we are aware that indigenous communities are some of the communities that have the greatest needs, not just in British Columbia but everywhere in Canada. We are aware of that, and definitely, as we look to the applications that come in, that's being taken into consideration. There's a close look taking place into those applications. We know that it's not just in B.C. We just announced Mattawa in northern Ontario, for example. Those five indigenous communities will benefit from fibre. We did that in a joint announcement with the Government of Ontario.

Yes, we're very aware that indigenous communities have the greatest needs. A lot of them—I think there are about 77—are dependent on satellite for all their communication needs, so it is definitely a focus of the program.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

I'm going to specifically go back to B.C. If you could speak on a coastal-wide strategy and how you're working with British Columbia, I'd really appreciate it. I'm really excited about this. We're growing a marine economy and we're growing a tourism economy as well, so we have more and more people visiting our region, but, again, the digital piece is such a key component to people coming to our region. Can you speak about coastal British Columbia and how you're looking at that?

[Susan Hart]

I can't speak about a coastal strategy for British Columbia. That's really the role of the Government of British Columbia. I can only say that for the Connect to Innovate program, every province will benefit. We're working closely with the Government of British Columbia. We're aware that the coast is a priority area and that indigenous communities are important for the Government of British Columbia.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

They're deemed a priority area. You've said that.

[Susan Hart]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

We are going to move to Ms. Ng. You have seven minutes.

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Thank you very much for coming. This is my first time meeting everyone. I'm new on the committee.

I have a couple of questions. I, like my colleagues, met with the Federation of Canadian Municipalities, and I represent an area that is just outside of Toronto, York Region. There's a mix there of both urban and rural, not unlike what Lloyd was talking about around farms and so forth.

Can you talk to us about whether Connect to Innovate contemplates that, and what approach you might be taking for that coverage? Maybe both ISED and CRTC could speak in terms of an opportunity going forward.

[Susan Hart]

Connect to Innovate is focused on rural communities, which we define as communities with a population of up to 30,000 people. StatsCan defines “rural” as communities with a population up to 1,000. We did that a little bit broader because we found there were a couple of communities—not many—that were just over that 1,000 mark that did not have backbone infrastructure, so we made the definition of “rural” a little broader to include communities that go up to 30,000. Those communities that are eligible—the majority, the 3,700—are under 1,000. There are fewer than 20 that are just over 1,000 in population. That's how we've defined it for Connect to Innovate.

[Christopher Seidl]

I obviously can't talk about the details of the ongoing consultation, but we did develop a fund to allow eligibility for all areas that are underserved. Right now part of the consultation is to identify the priorities.

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Speaking about the backbone, once the backbone is in for, let's say, the north, and if Connect to Innovate provides one access provider, is there anything in the plan to ensure that other providers also have access? If it were Bell that had access to the backbone in the north, how are we ensuring there is access by the other providers as well?

[Susan Hart]

As part of the Connect to Innovate program, open access was a key criterion. In applying, all applicants had to demonstrate a willingness for open access of technology that is subsidized by the federal government. In addition, as part of the application they had to tell us what they would actually charge.

Once projects are selected, our next step is to negotiate contribution agreements with the recipients, and open access will be a part of that to ensure that it's done in a fair way.

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Do I still have a bit of time?

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

You have two and a half minutes.