Evidence of meeting #2 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was witnesses.
A video is available from Parliament.
11:40 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sherry Romanado
Thank you. I'm new.
Mr. Jowhari, would you like to move the motion?
11:40 a.m.
Liberal
11:40 a.m.
Liberal
Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
If you want, I can read it again:
That the Standing Committee on lndustry, Science and Technology study the regulation of telecommunications including, but not limited to, an examination of changes to the Telecommunications Act recommended by the Broadcasting and Telecommunications Legislative Review Panel.
11:40 a.m.
Liberal
11:40 a.m.
Conservative
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
I know we've had some preliminary conversations. I don't think this particular motion captures the scope of what we wanted to do with regard to the study of the telecommunications industry.
Please indulge me, Madame Chair, while I pull up the motion on my phone here. I think there has been quite a bit of study of this in previous Parliaments. I'm probably inclined not to support it, but perhaps we can work the concepts into a different motion.
I'm more interested in looking at the affordability and accessibility of wireless as well as mobile, and we could probably look to the future of the 5G operating environment. There's going to be a lot more data transferred in that particular operating environment. I think there's an opportunity for this committee to review of some of the privacy components contained in the Minister's mandate letter, which are also going to be precipitated by this issue.
For me—and I've expressed this to colleagues before—something that Parliament hasn't looked at is the concept of personal data rights and data ownership. I would point the committee to article 20 of the GDPR—the European Union legislation—which talks about, in layman's terms, essentially the right of individuals to be able to contact a company that owns their data and say that the company has to give their data back to them. Similar legislation around people's rights to be able to tell companies that they can't sell their data has recently become law in California.
Those two concepts together have given rise to concepts like data co-operatives where, given that people now have those rights, intermediaries could, in theory, act as a co-operative to sell data back to companies that are using this. We haven't really studied that concept in this Parliament, and I don't think it's necessarily in opposition to the digital charter. I think it's complementary to it. As this concept emerges, we will need chat about what the regulatory environment looks like and if this is something that Canada is willing to consider, especially as other jurisdictions are moving into this area, and especially with regard to free trade. I also think that Canada is a player in this regard because we're a smaller market and we might be able to adopt some of these changes.
I don't know if my colleagues feel like that, but I'm not inclined to support this motion because I don't think it captures the spirit of what we were talking about. I would like to work with this committee to capture some of the essence of it and perhaps make it a little broader, so that we're talking about access and affordability within wireless broadband and mobile, as well as about data ownership, given the ubiquitousness of data transfer that will come in a 5G operating environment. That's where we would want to go.
If colleagues are more comfortable having this discussion in camera, I'm happy to do that as well.
11:45 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sherry Romanado
We have Mr. Masse and then we'll have Madame Lambropoulos.
Mr. Masse.
11:45 a.m.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
For the [Inaudible--Editor] submitted, I see that it probably could work somewhat and absolutely cross over with the subject matter a bit, as well. I see that perhaps we could refine something to make it a little more specific.
I'm open to the subject matter. It's about how to go about doing it. The individual motion needs to be worked with your other motion and maybe other components for a larger picture of things related to it.
On a positive note, I really like your motion on clean technologies. I don't think this committee has even studied clean technologies before.
On the other one, we might need some reworking with regard to the subject because there are all kinds of issues, such as digital rights and so forth, that affect and cross-pollinate each other in this discussion. That's what I'm worried about.
11:45 a.m.
Liberal
Emmanuella Lambropoulos Liberal Saint-Laurent, QC
I was just going to say that my colleague put forward three motions at the last meeting, and the other one does touch a lot on what Ms. Rempel Garner was talking about, so maybe a combination of this motion and his motion on affordability.... I know there was talk of adding accessibility, which I think members on this side would be happy to incorporate.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
Jeremy Patzer Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK
To add to what my colleague was talking about, we have a real opportunity in front of us to be proactive when we're talking about the digital rights of Canadians. As 5G rolls out here...we're still a few years away from full deployment of it. I think we're looking at about a five-year window for that. We need to be in front of this because if we become reactive to it and not proactive, Canadians are going to be at a massive disadvantage. We have a great opportunity in front of us as a committee to own the conversation and the narrative around digital rights for Canadians, and I think we need to be proactive as we pursue this.
11:45 a.m.
Liberal
Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON
When we think about digital rights, we can think of it in the context of data protection and privacy. When we think of digital rights, we can also think of it through the idea of access at an affordable price, be it a wireless device or a wireless network.
When I was going through it, I think there was a motion on the review of the price and affordability of mobile telecommunication services in Canada. There was one on the regulations of telecommunications, and the Telecommunications Act itself, which would obviously play in there too. We have one from Michelle on the spectrum allocation process, which should be a part of any conversation about affordability and pricing. We also have a couple of motions related to the expansion of the 5G network, which is obviously part of the picture as well.
When we talk about digital rights, I don't necessarily see a lot of overlap between policies on pricing and policies on data protection per se. If we want to collapse them all together, I'm open to having that conversation. I would also be perfectly open to an expansive conversation about the price and affordability of mobile telecommunication services, including a review of legislation, the expansion of 5G, the spectrum allocation process and adding competitors to the market.
As for second and larger piece on data protection and privacy, in the last Parliament I was part of the ETHI committee and worked with Peter Kent, Bob Zimmer and Charlie Angus, and colleagues from our side as well, in putting recommendations forward on privacy and data protection. We did speak to article 20 of the GDPR in respect of data portability, but we didn't get into the idea of data trusts and data collectives in a serious way. I think that would be a very interesting area of conversation going forward as well.
It would be useful to think about pricing and data protection as two big pieces of digital rights that we should address. I don't know that we need to blend them together exactly.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
11:50 a.m.
Bloc
Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
Whether we amalgamate them or not, my concern is that we do a study that really depicts the current situation. I don't mind that we're pioneers, that we're looking into the future in terms of 5G technology or whatever, but I think the current situation is important, particularly in a regional or rural context. I think that's absolutely essential. I think accessibility means having access to a connection, whether it's the Internet or a cellular network.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Ali Ehsassi Liberal Willowdale, ON
I suppose the challenge before this committee is to make sure that there's overlap and coherence amongst all the various issues that the committee members want to examine. It would appear to me that the issues that fit in nicely with each other would be affordability, which is the subject matter of a motion tabled by the member we're talking about; access, which is something that's been brought up; and perhaps spectrum, which is an issue of interest to Ms. Rempel. That would be one way of addressing it.
The other issue that I wanted to bring to the attention of the committee is that Ms. Rempel also has a motion on the data leak of sensitive information, so whether she would consider actually—
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
Madam Chair, I would remind my colleague of the rule. I believe he's breaching privilege.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
It's my motion and it can't be discussed publicly unless it's moved, I believe—but I'm rusty. I would just caution members when we're discussing motions that have been tabled but have not been made public—because this meeting is not in camera specifically—to not discuss other members' motions.
Thank you.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Ali Ehsassi Liberal Willowdale, ON
But in terms of bringing together the issues that are of concern to everyone here, it would appear to me that affordability, spectrum and access would go nicely together.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sherry Romanado
Okay.
So we have a current motion on the floor and discussion about adjusting.... We do not have an amendment to the original motion that is before the committee.
Yes.