Industry Committee on July 10th, 2020

[Eric La Flèche]

I care—

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

You're asking, anyway. That's the same thing.

[Eric La Flèche]

Yes, I'm asking. As I said, we get information from all sorts of different sources. If I can get direct information from the direct source, that's helpful for me to make my own decisions. The more information I have, the better the decisions I make. That's all it is.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Right. Did any people in corporate or management receive any extra pay during this time? Did you share that information?

[Eric La Flèche]

We did not receive any extra pay whatsoever. We did not share that information. It's a moot question.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Mr. Medline, I just want to make sure that I have your testimony correct. You would pay workers differently depending on the area and stage they were in. Is that correct?

[Michael Medline]

I'm sorry, but I don't understand the question. The stage—

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

With regard to COVID, you mentioned that you would—

[Michael Medline]

Yes, we would.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Okay. Since Windsor was in a different stage for many more weeks, did you pay those in the Windsor area and Essex County area more during that time? Did you extend the pay because we stayed in that stage longer?

[Michael Medline]

Your questions are good ones. I'm serious about that. Thank you for asking that.

When we first went into the pandemic—

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

It's a simple question.

[Michael Medline]

—we were making decisions. We made them for everyone around the country, whether they were impacted by COVID or not. Every teammate got the bonus, both in the distribution centres and the stores. We didn't do it regionally.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

You said earlier in testimony that you would pay differently depending upon the stage. Will you retroactively pay those workers if they stayed in different stages of risk?

[Michael Medline]

As I've said, going forward, if a region is in a lockdown.... Remember, we ended the pay on June 13 and gave two extra weeks. If a lockdown occurs in a region, we will pay hero pay. I've said that and I would be happy to do that.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

That's going forward, but will you look into that for those who stayed at a heightened degree of risk and worked at your stores? Will you go back and compensate them for the higher risk they had?

[Michael Medline]

Let me take a look at the dates and regions you're talking about. I'll check in with you later and get some information. It's a great question you're asking. Thank you for asking it.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

That's fair enough. If you don't know, that's fine.

I'm going to move on to Ms. Davis. At any point in time, did you consult any public health officer with regard to a change in the degree of risk? You've declared that things appear different from before. Did you consult any public health officer or official at any point in time?

[Sarah Davis]

We would have been looking at all of the government information and the health information. As I said, for us the pay was not related to safety. Our stores were safe throughout the pandemic. It was related to the amount of work our colleagues were doing, and it had returned to a new normal.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Okay, so you're suggesting that the workload is still normal, even though your competitors, which are restaurants and other food service providers, do not have the same type of influence right now.

I'm out of time. Thank you to the witnesses.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you very much.

We will now move to our second round of questions, at five minutes each. The first round goes to MP Dreeshen.

Mr. Dreeshen, you have the floor.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer—Mountain View, AB]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I would like to thank the witnesses for being here today.

We've heard a lot of testimony on the concept of the competition and the discussions that have taken place, but I'd like to direct my question to each of the witnesses in a little different fashion.

We heard testimony a few days ago concerning workers in the food retail sector and the great job they're doing to help ensure food remains available during these unprecedented times. I think each of us has seen in the grocery stores we've gone to just how much care and consideration the workers and the companies have taken to make sure things work properly and safely, but I'd like to talk about things from just a slightly different angle when we talk about getting our food to our tables.

Certainly food retail workers play an essential role in getting this food to Canadians, which is why they're designated as essential workers. The same is true for farmers, who have also been designated essential workers. When we talk about paying a decent wage or a decent price in this sector, I think we also have to look at what the farmers get paid for the products that end up on the grocery store shelves. We know the prices of most farm products have remained at a near-constant level for many years. Mr. Lemire mentioned the salaries back in the seventies. I remember when my brother was cutting meat in the grocery store. He was making more money than I was as an entry-level teacher. The salaries haven't necessarily maintained that same level throughout.

Recently there has been a lot of talk in the media about record-high food prices, but it's clear the farmer is not the beneficiary in this regard. The link between the farm gate prices and the retail checkout is broken. What the unions are saying, and what we heard on Monday, is that just a few extra pennies on a grocery item will be adequate to compensate the workers. Now whether this is to come out of the pockets of the consumers or the retailers' bottom line is a moot point to them. I suppose if the discussion ever gets to the stage where we're going to talk about how the money comes in for the products that you have, I think we want to make sure we recognize those who produce the food as well.

Since there is this great disconnect between the consumer and those who produce the food we eat, when the media talks about the rising food prices, the public assumption is that the farmers are the ones raking in the profits. This isn't so, as we know. We remember well when the wheat prices rose dramatically and the price of bread skyrocketed. It was impossible to explain how the value of the wheat in that loaf of bread had gone up only a few cents, yet the consumers were paying dearly. If, as the unions say, it's just a few extra cents per article, maybe we could be discussing, or it's a valid time to discuss, what the actual return is that farmers get on that produce, while we're addressing prices and wages.

I really have three points that I'd appreciate your commentary on. What can we do to address the price escalations in the processing and retail side of the equation, whether they be due to COVID or just the fact that COVID costs are more dear in processing and so on, or whether that's due to the escalation of shareholder returns, just to make sure the producer is not forgotten?

Again, we've heard many stories about how difficult it is to get shelf space for local producers in the major chains. These are the products that are produced by the same folks who shop in your stores. Since it's prudent to keep our local economies viable at this time of upheaval, will you also consider modifications to these practices?

First of all, could we start with Empire?

[Michael Medline]

Amen. Thank you for asking that. I couldn't agree with you more that we have to support Canadians, and we have to support local. The egg industry is a great example of where we're doing that right this second throughout the pandemic.

We're all partners—the supplier partners, the farmers—and I think we need government and industry to work together to make sure especially the farmers are being treated well and it's not coming out of their hides. Part of our job is to keep prices down for consumers, but that should not be at the expense of the farmers, who are our unsung heroes, or those other unsung heroes, the supplier partners, the companies that kept the food coming. This was an unbelievable job by the Canadian food supply chain.

Thank you so much for raising that. Any time I can pass on kudos...but we have to do something here. We want to keep prices down, but we have to protect the people who work so hard to put food on our tables. Give me a call, and I'll work with you on that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Unfortunately, that's all your time, Mr. Dreeshen.

Our next round of questions goes to MP Ehsassi.

You have the floor for five minutes.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'll start my questioning with Ms. Davis.

Ms. Davis, I have to say that I'm very confused after having listened to your testimony. You said that the two-dollar bump in pay was just out of appreciation. Do you still maintain that?