Industry Committee on April 23rd, 2020

[Simon Kennedy]

My understanding is that those have been tabled. It's possible they have not been tabled, but I have seen those answers and I have approved them. My hope would be that they would have been tabled with you by now. If you haven't seen them yet, they are certainly coming very soon.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Do you find it acceptable that your department takes three months to deliver basic answers to questions from a parliamentarian?

[Simon Kennedy]

I think our wish would always be to respond as quickly as possible. That's my undertaking. It has been a bit of a challenge, frankly, to pull together—

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

I'm sorry, but the bureaucracy serves at the pleasure of Parliament. I'd like to remind you of that. I find it unacceptable that it took three months. I don't even know....

It hasn't come to me. You're sitting in front of me today, and I haven't been able to review those responses that were related to the supplementary estimates that we had to vote on. Is your service delivery standard three months to respond to undertakings of this committee?

[Simon Kennedy]

Our service delivery standard has clearly been affected by the crisis and by a pretty dramatic reorientation of how we work. It has been a bit of an adjustment, but typically we would want to respond rapidly to questions the committee raises. I would agree with that.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Again, these undertakings were made well before this crisis unfolded. It was over three months ago. In the future, when a member of this committee asks your department for an undertaking, how long are we supposed to wait—

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Madam Chair, I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

We have a point of order on the floor.

Go ahead, Mr. Longfield.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Madam Chair, I think we're supposed to be addressing the COVID crisis and not supplementary estimates. I wonder if we could stay on track on that.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

This is on track, Madam Chair, because my colleague, Jeremy Patzer, just asked for some undertakings. I'm trying to establish, given that we're in the middle of the COVID-19 crisis and that the deputy minister has said his department has reduced capacity to respond to undertakings, what the service delivery standards will be for undertakings related to this committee on the COVID-19 crisis.

[Simon Kennedy]

Madam Chair, maybe I should clarify. I think my undertaking is to try to respond to the committee as rapidly as possible. I certainly understand the obligation to be accountable to Parliament. I would not say our ability to respond has been diminished across the board, but depending on the kinds of questions asked or the information required, to be frank, the timeline might be affected. For example, if we have to physically pull documents, that's a very significant challenge now, because most employees don't have access to the building.

I will say we will respond as quickly as possible, but there may be some adjustments, given the current circumstances.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Kennedy.

I'm responding to the point of order. I understand that the documentation that was requested at the previous meeting was circulated to committee members this morning.

The House gave us specific instructions to discuss COVID-19. Therefore, I will ask Ms. Rempel to continue her questioning with respect to COVID-19.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Just to be clear, Madam Chair, the undertakings were actually distributed after the commencement of this meeting. So if anybody wanted to review those, it would have been impossible as we would have been on that.

With regard to COVID-19, this is an important part of this committee's undertakings. We need to understand, given that the Liberal government has said that parliamentary scrutiny can happen via virtual sittings, whether the department has the capacity to maintain undertakings and the deputy minister has just said that doing that might be very difficult. If that is the case, we have a problem here, because we don't have weeks or months to deal with responding to some of the questions that we have on privacy, on contact tracing, on expenditures. This is supposed to be Parliament's vehicle for scrutinizing departmental expenditures and the minister's decisions.

I'm asking very clearly to establish a guideline here, while the deputy minister is sitting with this committee. If this committee asks for undertakings, how long is that going to take?

[Simon Kennedy]

Madam Chair, I believe I've already answered the question, so I'm not sure what other information the committee might wish to hear.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Kennedy, just to be clear, do you find three months an acceptable time period to respond to a committee on an undertaking?

[Simon Kennedy]

As a general proposition, no, but we have experienced an international crisis in the intervening period, which has created some challenges for us.

I will certainly endeavour to respond as quickly as possible to any future questions the committee asks.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

How are you going to put in place systems to respond to Parliament's inquiries during this time period so that it doesn't take three months in the future?

[Simon Kennedy]

Madam Chair, we have systems now to respond to parliamentary inquiries. I have been, for example, signing off on a whole range of parliamentary questions, access to information requests. As systems of government continue to move along, we will try to respond as quickly as possible.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

You can't have it both ways. You can't say you can't do it and then do it. It's one or the other.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Ms. Rempel Garner, that is your time.

We have time for one last five-minute round of questions.

Mr. Erskine-Smith, you have five minutes.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Thanks very much.

I want to start quickly with Mr. Thompson on the CEBA.

I've received correspondence from constituents who have $18,000 in payroll. I have received correspondence from constituents who poured their heart into a business that opened in November and they didn't have $20,000 in payroll last year.

Can you explain to my constituents what the rationale is for a $20,000 minimum threshold to access CEBA?

[Paul Thompson]

I would just indicate that there's been a lot of feedback on the whole issue of payroll, and that was what drove the decision to change the payroll parameter threshold from the $50,000 threshold down to the $20,000 threshold. Clearly, there's continued concern on that, which we're hearing about, and those views are registered and transmitted and shared with our colleagues at the Department of Finance. Part of the issue is the interaction with the emergency response benefit, which is also available to very small businesses, for example, without fixed costs that need more in terms of income support, but—

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Hang on a second. There's a clear difference between an individual who has lost income and who faces personal costs and who has the response benefit step in and a sole proprietor who not only also faces those same personal costs but also faces continued business costs. That's exactly what the CEBA is for. It's modest already if we're talking about a $40,000 interest-free loan with $10,000 forgivable. I'm just trying to understand what the rationale is for the $20,000 threshold, because it occurs to me that of course you can have criteria that ensure automatic approval of the loan, and that makes sense to me, but surely there ought to be some discretion here.

I have another constituent who's been banking with TD for 18 years for his business, but using a personal account, and he's now unable to access the $40,000 interest-free loan because it's not a business account. Surely the bank should have the discretion to say this has been a customer for the last 18 years and this individual should be approved.

[Paul Thompson]

Madam Chair, I can assure the member that that issue is very much on the radar. It's been identified and is certainly being discussed and shared with the Department of Finance and other colleagues across government.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Thanks, Mr. Thompson.

Mr. Kennedy, who in your office is best placed to answer questions with respect to digital contact tracing?