Evidence of meeting #9 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was businesses.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sherry Romanado
Thank you very much.
The next six-minute round will go to MP Gord Johns. You have six minutes.
12:05 p.m.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
Thank you, Minister, for being here.
As you know, we have just heard recently that the restaurant association of Canada says that one out of two independent restaurants doesn't expect to reopen. The B.C. Chamber of Commerce has also identified that over 50% of businesses that are closed right now don't expect to reopen.
We know how important rent is. Australia has a confederation as well, like Canada. They have worked with the provinces and have come up with an agreement. My colleague Peter Julian and I presented an agreement two weeks ago. We were happy to see the Prime Minister, five days later, commit to rent abatement. The problem is, that was nine days ago. Tomorrow is one week away from half of the businesses in this country not being able to pay their rent. We're on the verge, on the cliff right now of losing half of the small businesses in this country.
One of my constituents, Amy Hadikin, owns Kickstart Fitness and yoga studio in Parksville. She showed up and her doors were locked. She was able to negotiate paying the triple net, which is $1,700, from zero revenue right now. She has to pay that to get the locks taken off and buy some time.
They need to know when you're going to have this agreement in place. It's a week out. Are you going to have a deal done by the end of the week with the provinces so that you can provide relief? They're not looking for loans. They're looking for subsidies to help them get through this. They can't afford more debt, or they're going to walk away.
12:05 p.m.
Liberal
Mary Ng Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON
Mr. Johns, thank you so very much. I appreciate this very much. Indeed, I need to thank you for your work, because you and I have spoken throughout this time of COVID-19, so I really do appreciate your input. This is really a team Canada approach, so I appreciate that.
As someone who grew up, as a young person, in the restaurant business, I understand how important and how valuable they are—
12:05 p.m.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
I appreciate that, really, but what I need to know is when. Time is running out. We're on the cliff of losing half of the businesses in this country. They need to know tomorrow, so they can start negotiating with their landlords, Minister.
If you can give us a timeline.... Are you going to have a deal done by the weekend?
12:05 p.m.
Liberal
Mary Ng Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON
We're working really hard at that. The Prime Minister, the Deputy Prime Minister, we're all working hard to make sure that, with the provinces and the territories, we're able to come up with that support for our Canadian businesses as fast as we can. I understand the urgency. I really do.
12:05 p.m.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
We are at a historic moment, Minister Ng. We are hearing from the B.C. Chamber of Commerce that 49% of businesses with fewer than five employees can't find federal programs that suit their needs.
I know you've made amendments to the Canada emergency business account and you've lowered the threshold on payroll and upped it. The problem is that a lot of the proprietors are still falling through the gaps. They are not able to access a loan. I'll give you an example. Kristy Stroulger-Lotzien, who owns Soak Essentials in Parksville, British Columbia, has a payroll of $18,000 and can't access the Canada emergency business account.
The NDP is going to put forward a proposal today that you consider another measurement, gross revenue, so that you're not just focused on payroll and those proprietors can demonstrate.... Let's say a business has a gross revenue of $200,000 a year and you're collecting $14,000 a year in GST, or a portion of the HST. Over three years, you'd collect $42,000. The risk to the government is low by giving them the loan and the rebate versus losing that business and all of that tax collection.
Will you consider looking at another measurement so that people can get the support they need?
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
Mary Ng Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON
We've said right from the beginning that we will always listen to businesses to make sure we are getting the support out to them. I really appreciate what you have shared.
I would also say that the work isn't done. We are going to continue to do this work intently to help support businesses just like the one you described.
I really want to thank you for your work.
12:10 p.m.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
Hours matter on this, Minister.
Lisa Benard Christensen? runs a dog grooming businesses. She leases out chairs in her salon to other groomers and collects rent from them. It's a flow-through: This rent goes right to the landlord. Right now, she can't collect any CERB, even though she's pouring red ink and losing money, because of the stipulation that employment or self-employed income is the measurement. She may be collecting money from her chairs and submitting it to the landlord, but she's losing money and can't qualify for CERB. She has a diabetic son and can't buy food right now. The government needs to look at this and fix it.
Could you look at gross profit instead of employment income as a measurement so that self-employed people who aren't able to access these benefits get the support they need now?
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
Mary Ng Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON
As I said right from the get-go, our work isn't done. We continue to hear from businesses and will continue to take input from businesses.
I am going to keep working hard, and the government is going to keep working hard, to make sure that we are supporting the incredible businesses and entrepreneurs who are contributors to—
12:10 p.m.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
She's running out of money and needs help now.
Minister Ng, I talked to the Huu-ay-aht First Nations. They can't access the Canada emergency wage subsidy because they have a limited partnership. They're an indigenous-owned corporation. They're going to have to send their employees home. They've been working for years to get to this place. There should be no reason that they're excluded. Was this an oversight, or will you be able to fix this immediately and save this indigenous-led tourism-based business?
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
Mary Ng Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON
We have provided extraordinary support to indigenous-led businesses through the AFIs and through organizations like NACCA. My colleague Mr. Miller has been working on this, and we've been working together to make sure that support absolutely goes to these incredible indigenous-led and indigenous-owned businesses. I would be happy to follow up on that business in particular.
We have put out significant support because we want to see those businesses weather this period—
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sherry Romanado
Minister, I'm going to have to cut you off. The time is over for this round.
We'll now move to the five-minute rounds. The first member of Parliament will be MP Dreeshen.
You have five minutes.
12:10 p.m.
Conservative
Earl Dreeshen Conservative Red Deer—Mountain View, AB
I can't hear you, Madam Chair. Could I make sure that I understand what you're saying?
12:10 p.m.
Conservative
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sherry Romanado
Okay. We can suspend for one moment so we can make sure MP Dreeshen has the ability to participate.
While we are working on MP Dreeshen's technical issue, we will move now to MP Gray.
You have five minutes.
12:15 p.m.
Conservative
Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Minister Ng, I've heard concerns from many small business owners in my community regarding the support programs that your government has established. For example, owner-operators who use their personal bank accounts to operate their businesses cannot apply through the Canada emergency business account. Is your government addressing this gap?
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Mary Ng Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON
Thank you very much for that information, MP Gray.
I'm happy to listen to the concerns of those businesses. In particular, I have to admit that this is the first time I've heard of that particular scenario. I'm happy to do a follow-up after this.
12:15 p.m.
Conservative
Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
Minister Ng, the requirement for the $20,000 payroll that small businesses have to have to be able to access the CEBA loan doesn't work for a lot of small business owners, especially owner-operators, because they don't have traditional payroll. Is your government addressing this?
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Mary Ng Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON
We've provided many measures to help Canadian small businesses. As I said a little earlier, we've seen about 380,000 small business owners take advantage of the small business loan. These numbers are just coming in, and this is on the cusp of expanding the criteria to $20,000. Many businesses are absolutely being supported through this measure.
As I said, the work isn't done. We're going to have to continue to work with many more businesses. We certainly don't want to see people fall behind.
12:15 p.m.
Conservative
Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
Okay, fair enough.
The other question I have is regarding models and projections on the timeline for reopening the economy. Based on information from Health Canada and provincial testing capabilities, can you give us information on the plan? When can we expect the economy to reopen?
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Mary Ng Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON
As I said a little earlier, right now we are all working together to plank the curve. We are all working together to keep Canadians safe. Through the measures we are putting out, we are helping businesses keep their staff. We are helping businesses manage their cash flow through this period. We're going to keep listening to businesses. They contributed to how we are providing the solutions and these emergency measures for them. We're also going to listen to them to make sure that we get them on a good footing in preparation for a restart.
12:15 p.m.
Conservative
Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
My time is limited here, and I do want to ask a few more questions.
Some other countries, such as South Korea and Germany, are further along the curve, and they've relied on mass testing to be able to open their economy sooner. I know that a lot of people in my riding who had symptoms were begging to be tested and weren't. One family in particular finally were tested, and they tested positive.
Are you working with your international counterparts to take good practices to apply here in order to open our economy?