Evidence of meeting #20 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was covid-19.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:55 a.m.
Bloc
Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
Since we have Mr. Nagao here from Medicago, I'd like to ask him a question.
All the focus is on Canada's capacity to produce vaccines. Is Medicago's model and technology the answer to our mass production needs since Canada lacks scientific infrastructure?
11:55 a.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Medicago Inc.
We believe that local production capability for Canada is very important. When we get into situations with dose allocations, I anticipate that having local production capability in Canada is going to be important for the people in Canada.
I also will make a point that as a company based in Canada that also operates globally, we have a production facility and employees based in the U.S., and the current shareholders are actually in Asian and European countries. Also, the virus has no national boundary. In a way, this is a global business and we have to make sure that we are not handicapped by vaccine nationalism as we try to run the business.
11:55 a.m.
Bloc
Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
I would point out that the federal government's $173-million investment in Medicago seems to have come late in the game. How much did the delay in receiving federal funding affect your research? Because the Canadian government's support was so late in coming, did you miss out on establishing yourself as a global leader in COVID-19 vaccines?
11:55 a.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Medicago Inc.
The question is the relationship of the government funding and its timing versus the program that we have in place. First of all, I'm very thankful to the Government of Canada and its agencies, as well as the Quebec government, for their support for what we're doing at Medicago. We make up risk investment and we rely on the current shareholders and other constituencies for funding. Certainly we would like to welcome government support in a synergistic manner, but we have been trying to make our progress in the program—
11:55 a.m.
Bloc
Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
Had the federal government given you funding back in March—
11:55 a.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Medicago Inc.
—regardless of funding.
11:55 a.m.
Bloc
Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
Had you received funding from the federal government when the pandemic began, could you have produced a vaccine quickly? If so, would the government be distributing doses of Medicago's vaccine to Canadians on a mass scale right now?
11:55 a.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Medicago Inc.
My answer to your question is that there are two elements. We have to make a clean-cut movement and we also have to have the production ready. We all make what I call an at-risk investment, so—
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sherry Romanado
Unfortunately, you're out of time, so could you wrap it up very quickly, in five seconds or less.
11:55 a.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Medicago Inc.
Any expeditious support from the government would be welcome.
Noon
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sherry Romanado
Thank you very much.
Our next round of questions goes to MP Garrison.
You have the floor for six minutes.
Noon
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
I am very pleased to be on the industry committee, and I want to thank the witnesses for being here today.
I want to take a moment at the beginning to acknowledge the efforts of the Canadian scientific and research community in diving in to try to find a solution to the COVID pandemic, and to also acknowledge the efforts of Canadian-based biopharmaceutical companies.
I heard today some good suggestions of where to go forward.
My concern is that we need to know a bit more about what happened to advice given in the past so that we don't find ourselves, six months from now, looking back again and saying, my God, why didn't we do better?
I am going to ask Madam Nemer a question and I'll try to make it as clear as I can.
We're one year into the pandemic and we find ourselves without the capacity to produce vaccine in Canada, and without the right to produce vaccines in Canada that we have contracted for. My question is a simple one. Was the government advised that it would be critical to the health of Canadians to acquire the right to produce vaccines in Canada and to establish those production facilities? If that advice was given to the government, when was that advice given?
Noon
Chief Science Advisor, Office of the Chief Science Advisor
Madam Chair, if I may, before answering the question, I would like to clarify something.
My good colleague, Gary Kobinger, suggested that perhaps I was not the author of the text that I read and that it was vetted by government. I want to assure everyone that I wrote it with my staff. It has not been seen by anybody in government, not the political side and not any of the ranking civil servants, so it is entirely mine and I have been completely free throughout this pandemic to express myself.
To the question that is being asked of me, the answer is yes. The advice was provided about the importance of biomanufacturing in the country. In the early summer when I appeared in front of the health committee, I did mention it publicly. I said that we are playing catch-up and that we need to be able to produce vaccines in the country.
I think I'll just stop there.
Noon
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC
Can you then tell us whether you received any direct response from the government about that advice, or did you see any evidence that the government had taken that advice?
Noon
Chief Science Advisor, Office of the Chief Science Advisor
The government doesn't get back to me, saying, “Yes, we are going to implement your advice,” or not. Sometimes things happen, other times things don't happen. That's the name of the game for science advisers. Of course, it's always better when we see our advice being implemented.
As I said, catching up doesn't happen overnight. I think that from what we've heard from the other witnesses, it's evident that actions are being taken and I hope that we will accelerate these actions in the months to come.
Noon
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC
Did you, as the chief science adviser, or did the vaccine task force feel that they had the ability to ask the government to respond directly to your recommendation? Did you feel that you had that power to do so, or did the vaccine task force feel they had the power to ask for that accountability from the government, on your advice?
Noon
Chief Science Advisor, Office of the Chief Science Advisor
I think that I have never asked the government where things are happening. At times I saw where things were happening.
My counterparts in other countries do not ask government for accountability on their advice. I knew that was the kind of job that I signed up for.
Noon
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC
Thank you, Dr. Nemer.
I do think that indicates the problem with independence of your office and a lack of independence in the very attitude that is being expressed.
I want to go to Professor Kobinger, who was part of the vaccine task force and had concerns about the transparency surrounding that task force.
It seems to me there are two potential problems when a task force isn't transparent. One is the very narrow and direct conflict of interest of those who were involved with it. The second is the attitudinal conflict. In a group like the task force that had many people involved in the pharmaceutical industry, there's a danger that people weren't thinking about solutions other than those they were already involved in.
I'd like to hear Professor Kobinger on that point.
12:05 p.m.
Professor, Université Laval, As an Individual
Thank you so much.
This is a question that comes up more often to me, which highlights the lack of transparency. Otherwise, people would know a lot of answers to many questions.
I myself am still learning of some apparent conflicts of interest of the task force members. Again, this past Monday I learned that some members had stock in one of the big pharmas that was discussed and disclosed it as not a conflict of interest.
I think one major issue is that there was no independent review of the conflicts of interest that were declared. This committee started in July—the first meeting was the first week of July—and was not known publicly until several weeks after that. The members were not known until several weeks after that. Then the conflicts of interest were not known until several....
I'm just going to take one second. I want to apologize to Dr. Nemer. I did not mean to accuse her of not writing the text and everything. She has very good staff.
Thank you.
12:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sherry Romanado
Thank you very much.
That's the end of the first tour.
Before I go to the next round of questions, Mr. Booth, I see you had your hand up. Are you having some technical difficulties?
12:05 p.m.
Chairman, Precision NanoSystems
No, I just had a comment regarding one of the questions. If we're moving on, that's fine.
12:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sherry Romanado
We will start the second round of questions.
I understand that Medicago has another meeting, so they have to leave.
I want to thank you very much for being with us today. We wish you a good rest of the afternoon.
12:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sherry Romanado
We'll now start round two of questions with MP Baldinelli.
You have the floor for five minutes.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
Tony Baldinelli Conservative Niagara Falls, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you to all of the witnesses for appearing today.
I'd like to begin my line of questioning with Dr. Nemer, following up on my NDP colleague's questioning.
Dr. Nemer, as a member of the task force—I guess you're an ex-officio member—are you involved in overseeing decisions made? Do you provide advice? Are you involved in the recommendations that are made?