Exactly.
Evidence of meeting #29 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was spectrum.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #29 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was spectrum.
A recording is available from Parliament.
2:55 p.m.
Chairperson and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission
Exactly.
2:55 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
If by chance in some theoretical world it were a mistake, is there any reason, if ISED does radio diffusion, that it couldn't consider foreign ownership of telecommunication as well?
2:55 p.m.
Chairperson and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission
If I may, I'll try to answer the question in a slightly different way.
If you think back, there was a regulatory proceeding some years back, in the late 2008-09 period, involving Globalive, and it had quite an elaborate process. One of the things easily available to the commission is the ability to hold public proceedings and public hearings as required. So, perhaps in an area where there might be more controversy, the commission has the necessary tools to hold a public hearing, which ISED lacks in that it is not a regulatory body that holds public hearings.
2:55 p.m.
Conservative
2:55 p.m.
Chairperson and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission
Thank you.
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sherry Romanado
Thank you very much.
We'll now to go MP Erskine-Smith.
You have the floor for six minutes.
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON
Thanks very much.
I want to start with our competition commissioner.
Commissioner Boswell, in a submission to the CRTC, the Competition Bureau wrote that “mobile wireless prices in Canada are higher in regions where Bell, TELUS and Rogers do not face competition from a strong regional competitor.”
Shaw would be a strong regional competitor. Am I right?
2:55 p.m.
Commissioner of Competition, Competition Bureau
Yes. We discussed that in our submission to the CRTC's wireless proceeding.
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON
Do you mind if I walk through a few more quotes? This one is of great interest to me because we had promised to reduce prices by 25% in the platform, and obviously the pandemic has made that challenging in some respects in terms of priorities, but you noted in the same submission, “Prices are in the range of 35-40% lower in the parts of Canada where wireless disruptors have achieved a market share above 5.5%.”
Shaw and its business Freedom Mobile would be a wireless disrupter, right?
2:55 p.m.
Commissioner of Competition, Competition Bureau
From the submission we made to the CRTC and the extensive reports that we filed, that is correct, sir.
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON
You went on, “Wireless disruptors offer the most promising path forward. They drive lower prices, greater choice and increased levels of innovation in Canada over the long term.”
If we see the loss of a wireless disrupter, would that be a challenge to lower prices, greater choice and increased levels of innovation over the long term?
April 7th, 2021 / 2:55 p.m.
Commissioner of Competition, Competition Bureau
What I can say, Madam Chair, to the honourable member, is that now that this transaction is before us, we will be required to conduct a thorough review and make determinations with respect to whether it's going to result in a substantial lessening or prevention of competition.
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON
I appreciate that, and you don't want to get ahead of yourself. So, maybe we can look behind us. In the same submission you wrote, “in late 2017, the national wireless carriers engaged in a highly-publicized series of price decreases to respond to Freedom's 10GB for $50 offer.”
Do you think the national carriers would have engaged in that publicized series of price decreases if Freedom hadn't existed?
2:55 p.m.
Commissioner of Competition, Competition Bureau
It wouldn't be appropriate for me to speculate as to what motives were behind a particular course of action of other parties. I can't speak to that.
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON
No, it's clear that competition lowers prices. That was an element of competition.
This is the last quote I want to put to you:
...it is clear that facilities-based competition is unlikely to improve outcomes for Canadians if barriers to entry and expansion prevent or lessen the ability of facilities-based entrants, such as Freedom or Eastlink, to disrupt the coordination between the national wireless carriers.
It strikes me that it might be problematic—based on your quotes, not mine—if we were to lose a wireless disrupter such as Freedom Mobile.
3 p.m.
Commissioner of Competition, Competition Bureau
As I say, we did an extensive amount of work in the CRTC wireless proceedings. I should flag, as my colleague Mr. Scott has already flagged, that these matters are still before the CRTC, so I don't want to go too far. We made these submissions. They were backed by evidence, by deep economic analysis, where we retained an outside expert, so we stand by what we submitted to the CRTC in terms of competition advice.
3 p.m.
Liberal
Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON
In terms of process, one question I have is about the power you have to block a merger. No comment on your part, but here's my comment: based on everything you've said in the past, it is unclear how this merger would proceed as is, apart from maybe—maybe—Freedom being spun off to another entity.
What powers do you have to block a merger that can't be overridden by the government? Is it possible that you make a submission and say that you don't think it should go forward? Do you have the final say, or is it up to the Governor in Council?
3 p.m.
Commissioner of Competition, Competition Bureau
Ultimately, I have the final say with respect to taking action to block or alter the merger if our review gets us to that point. That's true for all the mergers that are reviewed by the bureau. I can bring an application as the commissioner of competition to the Competition Tribunal to prevent or alter the merger as proposed, or any merger as proposed.
3 p.m.
Liberal
Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON
If it goes forward and you find over a year from now that it has substantially lessened competition and you made a mistake, can you undo the merger after a year?
3 p.m.
Commissioner of Competition, Competition Bureau
There's a statute of limitations in the Competition Act that prevents us from taking action after one year.
3 p.m.
Liberal
3 p.m.
Commissioner of Competition, Competition Bureau
I'm a strong supporter of a comprehensive review of the Competition Act in Canada. I've said that previously and publicly, multiple times. Competition is truly the best protection the public has. Competition drives lower prices and increased choice. Competition drives productivity and innovation, which are needed in Canada.
This is an aspect of a comprehensive review by Parliament that could be considered.
3 p.m.
Liberal
Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON
Have you learned anything from the Bell takeover of MTS that you might bring to bear in this analysis?
3 p.m.
Commissioner of Competition, Competition Bureau
In the Bell-MTS matter, obviously the consent agreement is still in place. Provisions with respect to transitional services are still in place. We are monitoring the compliance with that consent agreement that was entered into in 2017, sir.
3 p.m.
Liberal
Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON
Thanks very much. Stay true to your past statements. I appreciate it.