Industry Committee on April 20th, 2021

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

How would the expertise help in this case? You've talked about an IP for a vaccine that has gone to the U.S. and has come back to us at $50 million. Can you expand? What would change in that case look like? How would we be able to generate wealth as a result of that IP? You call it collecting rent on that IP.

[Jim Balsillie]

Yes, sure. I'll give you an example in Germany. They have 72 research institutes for the Fraunhofer, with 29,000 employees. They have one centralized vendor for all commercialization, IP generation and licensing. The nature of the ideas economy is that it has to be very centralized. Look at the biggest tech companies in the world, which are worth $1 trillion to $2 trillion. It all goes through a core group of half a dozen people. It's not a distributed structure anymore. It's very centralized, because with a small half-sentence in an agreement, you can lose the whole thing. It requires very expert, very centralized oversight for these kinds of issues.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Is that centralized body that you are suggesting to be the Economic Council of Canada?

[Jim Balsillie]

Yes, and I'm prepared to put together a paper on how that could be resuscitated.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

I look forward to reading that.

In your opening remarks, you talked about our GDP per capita no longer being a sufficient metric for prosperity, because it excludes the deficit of IP payments as well as the rent we could collect on data.

Can you elaborate on that?

[Jim Balsillie]

When people build a company, they call it market capitalization. It used to be that your wealth came from the income you earned every month, or every week, and the money you put in the bank. Now it's much more the assets you build in your business, and it's much more those assets abroad, so GDP per capita doesn't capture where many of the people are making their money, whether it's real estate abroad or whether it's a company you have built.

You have heard people say, “I just raised $10 million on my company with a market cap of $100 million.” That person has made that money, but that doesn't flow through income, so if you only look at income, then you miss the part that Mr. Lemire was talking about. How do we help our companies, because you're not looking at where you have to build.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you.

I have about 20 seconds, but the question I have is a long one, so I'll give the rest of my time to the chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you.

I just want to make sure that the analysts have that. In the previous question from MP Poilievre, we were discussing what is called prior learning assessment and recognition, which is something that actually came out of the GI Bill. It was generated after the Canadian soldiers came back from war in order to help them get those competencies assessed and help them move into another job stream. It is something that is actually being done. In Quebec, it is called

the recognition of acquired competencies.

This is something that could absolutely be leveraged in this regard. The Canadian Association on Prior Learning and Assessment, CAPLA, is doing extraordinary work in this regard.

Before we adjourn, I know that MP Poilievre wanted to speak, so I will turn the floor to MP Poilievre.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Thank you for that very interesting point you closed with, Madam Chair. I'm going to have to read up more on that. It's a very interesting addition to the conversation on credentials.

The motion I proposed at the last meeting but which had not been distributed is now ready.

I move:

That in relation to the study of the proposed acquisition of Shaw by Rogers a call for briefs of a maximum of five pages be issued and that the deadline for the receipt of these briefs be no later than Friday, April 30, 2021 at 4 p.m.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you very much, MP Poilievre.

Is there any debate on the motion?

Seeing no debate, Mr. Poilievre, would you like to elaborate on your motion?

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

We only had four hearings on that proposed merger. I'm sure there are many more witnesses that would like to contribute, and others who never got a chance to appear at all. If they could all submit their briefs in writing, then we could have the analysts collect the findings and put them into the draft report.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Perfect.

Mr. Lemire, you have the floor.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Madam Chair, the dates are different.

The motion that was emailed to us says May 7, whereas this one says April 30. I just want to make sure that we put in the right date, because there is a one-week difference between the two. That can make a difference in terms of receiving the briefs and, consequently, the processing by the analysts and the time when we can adopt the report.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Mr. Lemire, the change to the document we received does indicate five pages rather than 10. The date is also changed to April 30.

Mr. Poilievre, was it April 30 or April 29?

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

I had April 30 in the motion I just read, but I'm flexible if anyone wants to amend it. That gives 10 days for submissions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Okay.

We have the motion before us. Is there any further debate on the motion?

Before we go to the vote, I'll read it one more time:

That in relation to the study of the proposed acquisition of Shaw by Rogers a call for briefs of a maximum of five pages be issued and that the deadline for the receipt of these briefs be no later than Friday, April 30, 2021 at 4 p.m.

I don't see that we need a recorded division.

(Motion agreed to)

Thank you very much, MP Poilievre.

That wraps up our time for today. I'd like to thank the witnesses for being with us. That was extremely helpful testimony.

For those who will be submitting briefs, please submit them to the clerk directly. If they are not translated in both official languages, he will make sure that is done so that they can be circulated to the committee. All documentation for the committee must be circulated in both official languages.

With that, I will gently remind you, colleagues, that if you have not had a chance to get your witnesses in for the green recovery study, that is beginning next week. Please get those to the clerk so that we can make sure to invite folks and send them headsets in advance of the meeting.

Once again, I'd like to thank the interpretation services staff for their hard work.

To our analysts, our clerk, and all the folks in the room who make this all possible, thank you so much for your help.

The meeting is adjourned.