Again—
Evidence of meeting #42 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was retirees.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #42 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was retirees.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
We should have the industry officials here for that, just to offer their expertise.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sherry Romanado
Is there any further debate on the original motion to move immediately to clause-by-clause study?
Seeing no further debate, I will ask the clerk for a recorded division.
(Motion negatived: nays 9; yeas 2 [See Minutes of Proceedings])
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
12:20 p.m.
Bloc
Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
I would like to thank my colleagues for this exercise in democracy.
I think I will yield the floor to Mr. Duvall.
Actually, I am going to ask Mr. Lemieux, instead, whether he wants to comment on what he has just heard.
12:20 p.m.
Director, District 5 - Québec, United Steelworkers
The bill seemed to be on the right track, but I think the discussions are going to continue. There are a lot of things I am having trouble understanding; it is what I call “proceduritis”, in my own jargon.
Nonetheless, let us keep moving forward. I ask that all parliamentarians think of our retirees, the most vulnerable people in our society, our seniors. Let us move forward, please, to get this bill passed before the election.
Thank you.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sherry Romanado
We'll now go to the last round.
Mr. Duvall, you have two and a half minutes.
12:20 p.m.
NDP
Scott Duvall NDP Hamilton Mountain, ON
Thank you.
One of the things that Mr. Yussuff said—and I feel it's outrageous that this could actually happen—is that when Sears paid $500 million to dividends in 2013, they still had a $313-million pension deficit. How can we prevent companies from doing this in the future? They're the ones that plan going into CCAA. How do we stop this paying of dividends when there is a huge debt in the pension fund?
Maybe Mr. Lemieux wants to answer.
12:20 p.m.
Director, District 5 - Québec, United Steelworkers
This amounts to taking money out of our pensioners' pockets and redistributing it to shareholders, who are well off, for the most part.
I would come back to my initial proposal. First, Bill C‑253 has to be passed. In addition, the provinces have to ensure that pension funds are 100% funded. It is indecent for a company to give money to its shareholders when it is not paying its contribution to the pension fund. That is the same thing as me, as a head of household who is about to retire, being in debt and my credit cards being maxed out, but deciding to head south for two weeks. It would make no sense to leave my children like that, in a vulnerable position. Well, that is exactly what we allow, in Canada: taking money from pensioners' pockets, from the most vulnerable people, and distributing it to company shareholders.
12:25 p.m.
NDP
Scott Duvall NDP Hamilton Mountain, ON
This is a quick one to whoever wants to answer.
Because of the time limits, I agree that we have to move on this issue as fast as possible before the House rises. Do you believe that the pandemic is causing this bill to be needed more urgently now than ever? Why?
12:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sherry Romanado
Answer very quickly, because you're over time. Would one person like to answer?
Mr. Roberts, go ahead.
12:25 p.m.
Director, Social and Economic Policy, Canadian Labour Congress
Sure. Maybe I can take a quick stab at that.
There's no question that a lot of distressed companies have been kept afloat through emergency financial assistance from the government over the course of the pandemic. A lot of business supports have been extended through this year, but the question is what happens when some of those supports are withdrawn. I think markets are wondering whether there's going to be a wave of insolvencies later on or whether we're going to see continued ad hoc means to keep these firms afloat.
12:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sherry Romanado
Thank you very much.
With that, I will thank our witnesses for being here today.
Thank you for your testimony and the time you have spent with us today.
What we will do is suspend. I will ask the members of the INDU committee to disconnect from this Zoom and connect to the in camera Zoom for the next portion of the meeting.
[Proceedings continue in camera]