It's both, and the reason for that is that the bad people don't let the processes come into existence.
Several of the HR people, who were all subsequently fired, tried to bring in processes. What happens at SDTC, which was again found in the RCGT report, was that “no processes exist”. They used to exist. Everything has gone downhill since Leah Lawrence started. It was a slow burn, but that's what happened.
When I talk about this, you know, it's sort of like you get rid of all of the executives one by one. Then you start hiring personal friends in those executive positions, and then those personal friends start hiring other personal friends into all of these different organizations and all of these different parts of that organization. It's taken a long time to get to the point we're at, but this is where it's gotten to, because there's never been any accountability for anyone at SDTC, even at the board level.
There's one thing I want to point out in terms of the gross level of corruption and governance issues that exist. Simon Kennedy came here and talked about how at the board level only seven out of the 15 appointees are GIC. The other eight, of whom a number are on the HR committees of SDTC, are appointed by what's called a “member committee” or a “member council”, which is also in the SDTC act, and which says that the public interest is represented by these member committees, which are a group of 15 people who are the ones who appoint the other eight, which is the majority of the board.
For the last four or five years, that committee is down to only two people, one of which is SDTC's own internal lawyer, Ed Vandenberg. For the last five years, two people have been appointing the majority of the board, through a basically illegal process. It's not just that there are governance issues at the bottom. It's also at the top, and the people who are being brought in, even at the board, are personal friends of the CEO and other people, because there isn't a single level of oversight across this.
Again, even this issue was brought up to ISED, and they've understood it, but they've chosen not to act, even though clearly this is someone or a group of people who are breaking the law, because how is it that you're allowing people who've illegally been appointed to the board of SDTC to then be making decisions on taxpayer dollars in the millions every single day? It's across the board.