Evidence of meeting #104 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was quebec.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON
I have a point of order, Chair. We have the witness here, and we would like for everybody to have a cordial conversation and make sure we're not harassing anybody.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound
Yes, I agree.
Mr. Perkins, I'll just ask you to let the witness answer. We can have robust but respectful conversations.
You've known me for some time now as chair of INDU. I'm somewhat lenient on time, and I can be liberal if witnesses take longer to respond. I can be mindful of that. I would just appreciate that we have a respectful conversation.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
The Verschuren Centre got $4.2 million on June 9, 2022.
5:10 p.m.
O.C., As an Individual
I don't know the exact number, but it's not a contribution. Yes, it was in 2010 when that was established, and Peter MacKay was there to open up—
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
Isn't that great.
On September 5, 2023, the Verschuren Centre got another $1million from ACOA. Is that correct?
5:10 p.m.
O.C., As an Individual
I'm not sure, but I'm sure that.... Look, it is an organization that's really supported because it's doing tremendous—
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
It seems to be supported enormously by the Liberal government.
On September 19, they got another $3.1 million from the Industry Department. Is that correct? That's a total of $8.3 million in one year. Is that an accurate total?
5:10 p.m.
O.C., As an Individual
I would say, about that the money that the Verschuren Centre got, that the first tranches were under the leadership of Stephen Harper, and these more recent tranches are under the leadership of the existing government today, yes.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
That's $8.3 million plus another $1.4 million from DFO in May 2022.
That's a total of almost $10 million in about a year and a half, so I want to ask you this question. When the SDTC investment committee considered your proposal, or the proposal from the Verschuren Centre, for another $2.2 million in 2022, did you think that was a conflict of interest?
5:10 p.m.
O.C., As an Individual
I'll tell you, I declared that as a conflict of interest, absolutely, right up front. The way it works, every time there's a project that comes forth, the members of the board of directors declare conflicts. They don't receive the material that is given in the board books, and they recuse themselves from the meeting. They do not get involved in any of the decision-making processes. That's how the decision works.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
I'll just remind you that you're under oath, and we had a whistle-blower here last night.
Did you send any communication before the investment committee asking the status of that project of management?
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
That's convenient.
Let me help refresh your memory. I have an email from the VP of investments that says, in fact, that this project was fast-tracked going forward. The testimony from the whistle-blower last night was that he will provide us with emails showing that it was fast-tracked, which was highly unusual.
Are you not aware that that was fast-tracked, or are you saying that you don't recall ever making representations on behalf of the centre?
5:15 p.m.
O.C., As an Individual
Because this was a conflict, I would have limited my discussions on any of this.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
Well, apparently it didn't stop it from going through the process and coming forward and having to go all the way to the investment committee.
In addition to that, after it was rejected because of your conflict of interest, are you aware that the staff was told to find other financing for your centre?
5:15 p.m.
O.C., As an Individual
No, I'm not aware of....
Number one, I think the process worked, right?
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
Well, let me refresh your memory. The minutes of the project review committee from SDTC, I see right here, where it was rejected, said that SDTC will shift its efforts to discussions with other potential funding sources with the hope that the diligence conducted today can be transferred. Then the centre received almost $10 million after that. It seems like it pays pretty well to be a well-connected Liberal who got employed out of this.
Now, Andrée-Lise Méthot also got almost $40 million for things that she had an investment in, then got shifted to the Infrastructure Bank, and sat on the investment committee there, that gave your business $170 million.
Isn't that correct?
5:15 p.m.
O.C., As an Individual
Look, we're entrepreneurs. We are investing in the future of our country. We are—
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
If everything's dependent on government money.
5:15 p.m.
O.C., As an Individual
It's not. Every $1 spent by SDTC creates $7. It's an amazing, successful organization.
I'm going to repeat—
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
It's been successful at getting money off it.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound
Mr. Perkins, your time is up.
I'll just give a couple of seconds to the witness to respond.
5:15 p.m.
O.C., As an Individual
I just would like to say, look, many of us are in the clean-tech sector. This is a tough sector. It is not easy to develop projects like we are developing. Andrée-Lise Méthot is a maverick. She really understands. She's someone I have a lot of respect for. She has invested aggressively and really built companies in Canada that create jobs and that are part of the future of the growth of our economy.
We need companies in the clean-tech sector. Ten of the 12 companies in the global list of companies are Canadian companies, one of which, by the way, is—
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound
Thank you, Madam Verschuren.
I'll now yield the floor to MP Sorbara for six minutes.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON
Thank you, Chair, and good afternoon to Ms. Verschuren.
Annette, just going over everything, my understanding is that you served from 2019 until the end of 2023. Is that correct?