Industry Committee on April 17th, 2024

[Jérôme Pécresse]

Yes.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Okay. Of that $80 million, how much is actually for deployment, given that deployment really isn't taking place till the mid-2030s? You have $80 million for development and deployment, and the latest date was June 2021, but you're saying now that it's not going to be till the mid-2030s.

[Jérôme Pécresse]

It's being deployed. It's being developed. Your question depends on what you call.... I don't want you to think I'm playing on words, but deployment is moving from the lab to the 150-ampere pot, then repeating what we have done in the 150 amperes, then moving from 150 amperes to 450 amperes. It's a step-by-step approach over many years. The government funding you referred to was for the first phase, but there will be other phases.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Okay. Deployment is not necessarily deployment into the economy, but deployment through the system of Rio Tinto's labs. Is that it?

[Jérôme Pécresse]

It's a scale-up in our Saguenay operation on a larger and larger pilot scale—the test units.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Okay. That's fine. That explains it a bit, because for “deployment”, I think people get the impression that it means deployment externally.

What was the $80 million used for? Give us a better picture as to what took place with the $80 million.

[Jérôme Pécresse]

It was for hiring 100 scientists, who are also part of ELYSIS and who are all in Quebec; purchasing the equipment that was needed to do the test in the 150 amperes, which allowed us to produce this; preparing and purchasing the equipment to do the test on the 450-ampere pot, which is three times bigger, which is kind of representative of the industrial scale. It's purchasing the pot, purchasing all the logistics and the many kinds of equipment that allow us to do that, and purchasing laboratory equipment to do tests. It's all of this.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

With that, are you still employing those scientists at the same level of employment? Has that stayed consistent?

[Jérôme Pécresse]

We are hiring every quarter to increase it.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

The employment has actually gone up. Is that what you're saying?

[Jérôme Pécresse]

Yes.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

The motion also says that the company “anticipated cost overruns on the initial budget of $240 million”. Is that accurate?

[Jérôme Pécresse]

I said in my introduction that it's not accurate.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Okay. What would be accurate?

[Jérôme Pécresse]

I don't think we have cost overruns.

This is going to be a process where sometimes we'll test something and it will not work, and then we'll understand why and we'll test it again. You could call it a cost overrun, but it's just innovation life. Do you see what I mean?

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

I see somewhat what you're saying. It's just a little confusing, but I think I understand. It's a loss leader for you until you get the final product, then. Is that essentially it?

[Jérôme Pécresse]

Yes. You test and it's not working, and then you understand why and you test again.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Okay.

Has Rio Tinto received any municipal support? I know that we have federal support and we have Quebec support throughout. I'm just curious. I'm a former city councillor, so I'm wondering whether Rio Tinto has also reached out for support from the municipalities.

[Jérôme Pécresse]

For ELYSIS, I'm not aware.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Okay. That would be of interest. I just don't know.

I know, for example, that for the Stellantis project in Windsor, the City of Windsor had to really come to the—

[Jérôme Pécresse]

I'm sure we have local support on the things we do in Saguenay. I'm always impressed by how well we work with the community. I'm not aware of anything on ELYSIS specifically.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Okay. If you do find out something, I would appreciate knowing. I think that would be helpful. It's part of the accountability. We tend to forget that cities or municipalities at times are giving land or other types of things, like materials and so forth.

With the process now and with your competition that's out there, give us a clearer picture in terms of where you can corner the market in the future. You mentioned automotive. You mentioned aerospace. What other applications might be useful for the new process?

[Jérôme Pécresse]

ELYSIS is a proprietary technology developed by the joint venture, with the partnership between us and another very large aluminum producer in the world. It's not an IP that we intend, in the short term, to license to anybody.

We are aware of some competing projects to do the same that may have happened in Russia or China. We are not aware that anybody has been able to do this, which is to produce the highest purity possible of aluminum, produced, again, without carbon emissions from the electrolysis. We are not aware of anybody being able to get to that stage.

The sectors where this is most in demand are sectors like automobiles, the cable industry—the people who produce electrical cables, in particular for the grid—and aerospace, among others.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you.

Those are all of my questions, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Mr. Masse.

Mr. Paul‑Hus, the floor is yours for five minutes.