Industry Committee on June 3rd, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Mr. Badawey.

Mr. Garon now has the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Singh, I would like to ask you a technical question. Can you name a non-regulated Canadian market in which one company has a market share of more than 60%?

[Jagmeet Singh, NDP, Burnaby South, BC]

When Rogers and Shaw merged, it rose to almost 60%, but it was not exactly.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Can you name a single merger in Canadian history that your 60% threshold could have prevented?

[Jagmeet Singh, NDP, Burnaby South, BC]

This is a preventive measure with an eye to future mergers.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

So this is something that has never happened. Is that correct?

[Jagmeet Singh, NDP, Burnaby South, BC]

The current situation is unprecedented.

At present, just three telecommunications companies hold a majority market share. If there is another telecommunications company merger, regardless of which ones it might be, they are going to hold a more than 60% market share, and that would be a serious problem.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

I understand the need to reduce the threshold to 30% from 35% and do a study. On the 60% threshold, I think this is an aspect of the legislation that will probably never have any teeth.

I have one last question for you, Mr. Singh. My time is running out—you know what it is like not to be part of the official opposition.

I would like to talk about Glentel. As you know, Bell and Rogers have formed a joint venture, and it is soon going to have a monopoly on the sale of cellphone plans in Loblaws grocery stores. Your bill tackles market structure, but it seems to me that even after Bills C‑56 and C‑59, there are still behaviours that seem anti-competitive but are still allowed.

What is your opinion about this business model? What do you think about the idea of two competitors forming a joint venture and holding the monopoly in a big grocery chain?

Do you think these are anti-competitive practices? Do you think we should go even further than what Bills C-56 and C-59 have already done?

[Jagmeet Singh, NDP, Burnaby South, BC]

The short answer is yes. In fact, I have put that question to the Prime Minister during question period in the House of Commons.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

What would you do?

[Jagmeet Singh, NDP, Burnaby South, BC]

I told him this was a big problem and the Liberal government should take action. This kind of situation had never been foreseen.

There is an alliance between the biggest grocery company and big telecommunications companies. As you said, it will mean that this joint venture will have a monopoly on telecommunications services in the grocery stores. This is definitely not a good thing.

The government has to act immediately. There should be a bill to settle the issue of anti-competitive practices.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Should that be done before the election?

[Jagmeet Singh, NDP, Burnaby South, BC]

I hope so, because it can be harmful to people.

I hope measures will be taken to prevent it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you.

Mr. Masse, the floor is yours.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Actually, I'm glad this point was raised because, as New Democrats, we were opposed to a number of these takeovers. A good review of some of the ones that took place, if we remember, is that we actually lost Future Shop to Best Buy. We opposed that. We lost Zellers. It was taken over by Target, and then Target even abandoned Canada, after Zellers actually had a union and above average wages and benefits for their workers, and was blown out of the Canadian market altogether. Because of that, we opposed it. Another one, which is important for Quebec, was the Rona takeover by Lowe's, which we opposed. The market share you mentioned, 60%, is actually getting ahead of things. I appreciate that because, when you look what's left over in the market, we have Telus, Bell, Rogers, Videotron and Cogeco, so we have those as the major pieces that are left in the puzzle, and a 60% threshold is possible if we don't get in front. Perhaps you can elaborate about how, yes, we can't predict the future, but we can send signals to the corporations that we just can't be treated like a colony anymore, in terms of Canadian consumers.

[Jagmeet Singh, NDP, Burnaby South, BC]

It's a great example. I touched on it in the previous question, but it gives me a chance to elaborate on it.

In terms of the 60% threshold—not just in telecommunications, but also in grocery stores—with the massive amount of market share that each of these corporations now hold, if there are any additional mergers, we would see that 60% threshold being hit. The message we're sending with this bill is that, no, that's not allowed. You cannot merge in such a manner that's going to hurt Canadians.

These mergers will be banned outright. It would stop these companies from even considering those type of mergers. I think it's very important, sadly, given how concentrated things are at this point.

As you mentioned in your question, Mr. Masse, there are already such significant concentrations in the telecommunications market that any additional merger would easily hit that threshold. We want to say that, no, that shouldn't happen.

I appreciate, Mr. Masse, you going through the history of all the mergers that New Democrats have opposed. We can see clearly that again and again both Liberals and Conservatives have allowed these mergers to move forward. They have had the opportunity to oppose them and have not. That has been bad for Canadians. That has done injury to Canadians.

That's why I'm putting forward a bill right now that would actually stop this from happening.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Lastly, really quickly, it was mentioned about how the European Union and Australia use these models because they are Commonwealth nations. Yes, the United States is close to us, but they also have antitrust laws.

Do you want to touch on the advantage they have in protecting their consumers over what Canada does? It can be from automotive to grocery store to a whole series of different things. We haven't been treated fairly.

[Jagmeet Singh, NDP, Burnaby South, BC]

Certainly. It's a really good point that Canadian laws around competition are amongst the weakest in the world. That's one of the things we realized when we started digging deeper.

The Competition Bureau has been raising this concern for a long time. It's that they don't have the tools and the ability to go after abusive behaviour.

In the States, with the antitrust laws and with their competition laws, they have much better protection for consumers. We need to do a lot more to ensure consumers aren't getting ripped off by large corporations.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Mr. Singh.

Mr. Williams, the floor is yours.

[Ryan Williams, Conservative, Bay of Quinte, ON]

Mr. Singh, I want to go back to the cellphone question.

After the Rogers-Shaw merger, I asked you if you knew how much the prices went up and how much the wireless revenue per customer went up. I didn't get an answer.

It's 1% for the year on already the highest prices at a time when this government promised that it would reduce prices by 50%. Actually, it said it did that.

At the end of the day, we're seeing a government that's promising something that it's not then delivering. We're seeing that you're standing behind them and not doing enough to force them. You have the power, sir.

Even when you were at the heritage committee last week, you had the Bell CEO, Mirko Bibic, in front of you. You didn't even ask him a question about the new Loblaws rates and No Name rates that are being offered through Bell.

What is your red line, sir, in order to hold this government up to stop mergers that are hurting Canadians?

Like you say, it's not just about bills or asking a question in Parliament, but what is your red line to hold this government up to ensure you're standing up for Canadians? We've not seen that at all.

[Jagmeet Singh, NDP, Burnaby South, BC]

I'm glad you brought up the Bell CEO.

I think it would be important to note that I was the only leader who went up against CEOs. I've gone against the Bell CEO. I've taken on the grocery CEOs. Again, I was the only leader there to take on these wealthy and powerful corporations that are ripping off Canadians.

I'm proud to be the only leader. I wish other leaders would understand how important this is and how much they're abusing Canadians.

They expect leaders to show up. I believe it's the role of government to stop big corporations from ripping off Canadians. That's why I showed up to ask these questions. That's why I will continue to take on big corporations.

[Ryan Williams, Conservative, Bay of Quinte, ON]

Mr. Singh, you folded. You've allowed these corporations to roll over you. Canadians see right through you.

[Jagmeet Singh, NDP, Burnaby South, BC]

In addition, I have to say—

[Ryan Williams, Conservative, Bay of Quinte, ON]

Mr. Chair, I cede the rest of my time to Mr. Perkins.

[Jagmeet Singh, NDP, Burnaby South, BC]

I'm going to finish my answer. The question was quite long. I'm going to finish my answer and then I'm happy to take any more questions.

It is clear—and the Conservatives know this very well—that I've taken on corporate wealth, greed and the exploitation by these CEOs. On the question specifically about Bell, the matter had not arisen. I would love to have asked that question of the Bell CEO.

I asked the question of the Prime Minister when I learned of it, but it would have been a great question to put to the CEO.

Let's point out that neither Pierre Poilievre nor Justin Trudeau asked any questions of these CEOs, but I did.