Industry Committee on June 5th, 2024

[Navdeep Bains]

I'm saying that I don't recall the specific conversation you're alluding to.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

That's convenient.

[Navdeep Bains]

The point I'm making is that there are over 100 GIC appointments.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I know there are. That's convenient. I have limited time, as you know, so I'm not going to have a list of your 100 appointments.

On this one that has been in the news for a year, I would have thought that you looked at your notes from your time in office. I will take the testimony from the president as fact then, since you can't contradict that.

You then proceeded to appoint a number of other directors who were also conflicted, but both you and your chief of staff said that this process started in 2018. Is it normal, when you start the process to replace a chair, that you don't inform that chair that the process is ongoing?

[Navdeep Bains]

The process, as I've highlighted in my remarks, is an open, fair and transparent process that's publicly available to all individuals. Anyone who wants to apply can do so. As I also mentioned—

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I'm asking about the application process, minister. Former minister, I wish you would answer the question instead of sticking to vague generalities.

The issue here is that you asked them to consider two people who are conflicted, against the Conflict of Interest Act and public officer holder requirements. That then proceeded to be checked out. The president reported back to former ADM Noseworthy that one of them dropped out and that the other was conflicted and shouldn't be appointed.

Now, I'm presuming that ADM Noseworthy put that up the food chain, and the word came back three weeks later, according to the president, that that's whom you wanted appointed, even though she had a conflict. Why did you think that it was appropriate to appoint somebody who had a conflict to this board?

[Navdeep Bains]

There are two aspects to your question. The first is that the process is very clear in terms of determining how individuals are selected. This is an open, public, fair, merit-based, transparent process.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

With respect, that's not my question.

[Navdeep Bains]

As I mentioned, second, all designated public office holders are subject to the Conflict of Interest Act.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I've already stated that. Why aren't you answering the question? Why are you obfuscating about a conflicted director who ended up running a corrupt board that resulted in over $76 million of taxpayer money being taken from the taxpayers and voted for their own companies?

[Navdeep Bains]

As I've said, there's a very clear process in selecting the individual. It was a very open, fair and transparent process.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

It was fair if you were a Liberal. You recommended her to the Governor in Council. I would ask you, were you aware that Andrée-Lise Méthot, whom you also put on the board, voted for $42 million to her companies? Were you aware that former Liberal staffer and Trudeau organizer Steve Kukucha, whom you put on the board in this fair and open process, voted his companies more than $25 million of taxpayer money? Are you aware that you appointed Guy Ouimet from Quebec, who voted for $4 million in this fair and open process for his own companies?

This is your legacy as minister of Industry. You set up a billion-dollar slush fund for the Liberal Party so that people could featherbed their own investments and break the law by furthering the value of their investments in companies using taxpayer dollars. Is that what you intended to do?

[Navdeep Bains]

As I indicated in my opening remarks, I left cabinet on January 12, 2021, so I'm not sure which appointments were before or after that.

I would also indicate—

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Boy, it's great to have amnesia.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Mr. Perkins, your time is up. Please let the witness respond.

Mr. Bains, I'll let you respond.

[Navdeep Bains]

Again, I want to reiterate that all designated public office holders have an obligation to hold themselves to a certain standard.

With respect to Ms. Verschuren, her credentials were well known. She received the Order of Canada. She's an individual who was well respected in the clean-tech sector. If I understand correctly, she served under Mr. Flaherty as part of his Economic Advisory Council in 2008 and was also appointed to stick under Mr. Harper, as well.

Again, she's an individual who worked for previous governments and was well known within the business community, particularly in the clean-tech sector.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Mr. Bains.

I'll now turn it over to MP Arya.

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Ms. Bhullar, I understand this is a very busy time in your personal life. Where are you calling from?

[Veena Bhullar]

Yes, I received the summons the day before my wedding, but I'm here today. I've made every effort to make myself available today, although I'm on my honeymoon.

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

Congratulations on that. Which part of the world are you calling from?

[Veena Bhullar]

I'm in Vernon, British Columbia.

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

Okay. Congratulations, and thank you so much for making the effort to appear before the committee today. That shows the respect you have for the Canadian Parliament and our parliamentary process.

Mr. McArthur, you mentioned five things that need to be done, including prompt resumption, resuming intake of applications and expedited implementation of the Auditor General's report. Number five was clear communication. I want to focus on recommendation number four, where you said, “streamline processes”. You said we have to make adjustments to the rigorous processing structure that SDTC currently has.

Can you elaborate on that?

[Peter McArthur]

I can tell you that, when clean-tech companies are applying to SDTC.... It is often with trepidation that they go forward with their applications, because they know how difficult and rigorous it will be. However, we want to make sure any enhancements to the process do not put additional burdens on companies. It prevents us from executing and having innovations come to market.

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

It's a fact that many companies have been successfully financed by SDTC through that rigorous process and have been successfully implementing, like Mr. Khan's company.

Anyway, there's always room for improvement.

I'll come back to you.

Mr. Khan, you said your project went from lab to proof of concept. Now, regarding the project you are implementing in the oil sands, has it reached the commercialization stage?

[Dr. Ibraheem Khan]

It's a pilot that we're hoping to ultimately sell to our partner. It's on the precipice of commercialization.