Industry Committee on Sept. 16th, 2024

[Konrad von Finckenstein]

You're asking me, as you have before, a theoretical question. I can clearly answer a factual question. For a theoretical one, you have to give me far more detailed facts before I can give an answer.

You speak about a grant to Telesat. That was by whom? Was it by cabinet decision? On what basis and on what authority was it done? Who was the minister, etc.?

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Just this past week, Justin Trudeau announced that Mark “carbon tax” Carney is going to be advising him on all matters of finance. Days afterward, a company that Mr. Carney has a financial interest in received $2.14 billion, according to an announcement by the Prime Minister.

Mr. Carney has been hired by the Liberal Party, it appears, to avoid the scrutiny of the Conflict of Interest Act.

Does this present a skirting of the...? It clearly presents as a problem to Canadians. Is Mr. Carney a ministerial adviser by the definition set out in the act?

[Konrad von Finckenstein]

No, because he is advising the Liberal Party. What the Liberal Party does or does not do is not government action. The government may adopt the advice that was given by Mr. Carney, but in effect they're adopting the advice of the Liberal Party, who got it from Mr. Carney. In the way they structured it, right now he is not a ministerial adviser.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

It's an appropriate practice, then, for the government to provide non-public information to employees of the party when those employees have serious financial positions in companies that could stand to benefit from that information?

[Konrad von Finckenstein]

Well, the party gathers information from all sorts of sources, etc. They can pay for it. They can get it for free, etc. They then use that information in order to position themselves and decide on their policy. That is a perfectly normal procedure. There is nothing of conflict of interest here.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

There's no conflict if Mr. Carney receives non-public information from the Department of Finance and then uses that to provide advice to the government, because he's employed by the party and not paid by taxpayers, although the advice that he provides could materially benefit him and his other—

[Konrad von Finckenstein]

Your supposition is that he receives non-public insider information from the Department of Finance.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

On a point of order, Chair—

[Konrad von Finckenstein]

That's just a supposition you made. I have no proof of that. If that is proven to be the case, it would be a different situation—

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Excuse me, Commissioner. We have a point of order.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

I'm sorry to interrupt, Commissioner.

I just find it a little bit troubling that Mr. Barrett hasn't asked a single question about SDTC. He's using hypotheticals to ask the witness a question, which is great, but it's not what we're here to study. My understanding is....

I know he supports world-dominating billionaires rather than Canadian companies, but that's not the axe that he should be grinding today. It's SDTC.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Is that seriously a point of order?

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

It's relevance.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Mr. Turnbull.

I accept your point of order, in that we had a Standing Order 106(4) meeting to call for this three-hour special meeting to discuss the commissioner's report on SDTC.

I'd ask you, Mr. Barrett, although I am generous in terms of the questions, to try to be relevant to the topic. You had a whole lot of resources deployed this summer to bring this meeting forward specifically about this topic. Please keep those rules in mind.

You know the rules of relevance, and I'll yield the floor back to you. You have a minute and a half.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

I agree that Mr. Turnbull is quite troubled, Chair, as he stated.

When we're talking about conflicts of interest like Ms. Verschuren's—you can check the box there, Ryan—Randy Boissonnault's company, Global Health Imports, was given $30,000 on December 30, 2023. Minister Boissonnault was a 50% partner in that company. Were you aware of that?

[Konrad von Finckenstein]

Sorry—when was it given?

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Go ahead, Mr. Turnbull.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

I thought the topic for this meeting was SDTC. Is the witness answering questions on any topic that Mr. Barrett chooses, or—

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

I'll bring it back. That was 15 seconds.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

—is this an actual focused discussion?

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Mr. Turnbull.

Yes, I agree with that point of order.

Mr. Barrett, keep it on the topic of the meeting, please.

Thank you.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

It was December 30.

[Konrad von Finckenstein]

That was a company.... You're talking about the contract from Elections Canada?

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Yes, sir.