I guess I'd say a couple of things. One of them is that a number of the witnesses physically present have touted the virtues for merchants and for consumers around the access to a broad market, the security, all of those elements, protection from fraud, coverage against counterfeit and so forth.
Let's be really clear. In Australia, they do all that. In France, they do all that. In Britain, they do all that, and they do it for 30 basis points, which is in the order of less than a quarter—more like a fifth—of what is being charged in Canada. All of those benefits accrue to the merchants and through them, postpurchase, to the consumers. They occur in every one of those other markets that have prices for interchange way below what we do.
Where this racks up the money is in rewards points, which are regressively profiled, where the wealthiest people, certainly the people who are eligible for the highest-fee cards, get the most benefit, and it is paid for by everybody else. Of course, the big pot of gold at the end of all of that goes to the banks as profitability.