With my last round here, I'll start off by saying that I did spend a few years working at a head office of a bank on Bay Street as well as on an executive team of two retailers. I do know that the internal rate of return on equity of the bank I worked for in credit cards was 52%. You've focused a lot at the Canadian Bankers Association on the cost, but they're making a massive amount of profit. When the bank's target ROE was 15%, it was making 52% on credit cards. Like Mr. Van Bynen said, clearly it's business development to move them to other products, because they don't cut the credit card off when they make that shift to a line of credit.
I'd like to ask about the interchange, just briefly. Visa, I guess, is the best one to answer this, or Mastercard, whichever one wants to take it. The interchange revenue is based on a percentage of the sale, yet the cost does not change based on the sale, does it?