Evidence of meeting #141 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was stripe.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Director, Public Policy, Stripe
The board was not engaged in this decision. We don't see a conflict with respect to Stripe.
Conservative
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
You have a board member who is the godfather to the finance minister's son and is the economic adviser to the Prime Minister and you are telling me that you don't know if you proactively put a compliance measure around this man, given the subject matter we are talking about today.
Director, Public Policy, Stripe
You're asking me about board procedure. I'm not engaged with the board. I wish I could tell you more, clearly.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound
Thank you, Madam Rempel Garner.
I understand that Mr. Peters is committed to tabling the information with the committee. That would be through the clerk. Thank you.
We'll now turn it over to MP Gaheer.
Liberal
Iqwinder Gaheer Liberal Mississauga—Malton, ON
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you to the witnesses for appearing before the committee.
My questions are largely for Interac.
Mr. Bossin, I find that an increasing number of businesses in my riding and wherever I go are accepting Interac e-transfer as a method of payment. Do you have the data around what percentage of your total payments involve a business?
Head, Government Relations and External Affairs, Interac Corp.
We do examine the number of e-transfers sent by businesses. I don't have that right in front of me, but we can follow up with that information on numbers done by businesses.
Liberal
Iqwinder Gaheer Liberal Mississauga—Malton, ON
I'm reading articles online about how that percentage has gone up over the years. Would you say that's correct? Are increasing numbers of businesses accepting Interac e-transfer as a method of payment?
Head, Government Relations and External Affairs, Interac Corp.
Yes. In line with the growth of e-transfer, which is about 1.2 billion transactions, an increasing share of that percentage has been made up by businesses.
Liberal
Iqwinder Gaheer Liberal Mississauga—Malton, ON
What fees are involved for a business when they accept a payment through Interac e-transfer?
Head, Government Relations and External Affairs, Interac Corp.
It's important to be clear here. On the Interac e-transfer service, Interac provides the service to our customers, in this case the financial institutions. Those financial institutions are then responsible for determining pricing to their customers, whether those be businesses or consumers. Interac does not have a role in setting those fees. Our responsibility is to operate the network.
Liberal
Iqwinder Gaheer Liberal Mississauga—Malton, ON
When I send an e-transfer to a friend, let's say, there's no fee involved. Whatever money I send is the money they actually get.
I wonder if it's the same for businesses, or whether there is a fee involved.
Head, Government Relations and External Affairs, Interac Corp.
It would be up to the business and their financial institution, based on their banking package.
Liberal
Iqwinder Gaheer Liberal Mississauga—Malton, ON
I will say that it's a very convenient system to use.
I want to raise two points.
We live in an age of convenience. When I do an Interac e-transfer and have to add someone, I have to put in their name, email and phone number. If they don't have Autodeposit, I have to put in a security question and an answer. In an age of convenience, I feel people do not want to engage in those steps. They want something a bit faster.
Are you working on, for example, a QR code you can scan that autofills the form so you can immediately add a payee? Is Interac thinking about the interface?
Head, Government Relations and External Affairs, Interac Corp.
Sure. Again, this is part of how we've looked at our product development and product road map over the years. It's to see how we can make it easier for businesses, in this case, to accept payments.
There have been many innovations. You mentioned Autodeposit as one. We're eliminating the need to include a question and an answer. There are a number of things like this that we look at to make it easier for, in this case, businesses. We are seeing them using e-transfers more and more.
Liberal
Iqwinder Gaheer Liberal Mississauga—Malton, ON
I think about a lot of small businesses in my riding of Mississauga—Malton. It has the second-biggest concentration of businesses in Canada after downtown Toronto, because it has Pearson airport and that whole area. A lot of them are run by folks like my parents, for example, who do not necessarily know how to navigate this sort of technology.
If that interface were made a little easier, I think you'd see an uptick in adoption of that technology. Maybe it's about having an education campaign on how Interac e-transfer works. With credit cards nowadays, you just tap, and you're good to go.
If Interac could be made a bit easier, you'd see a great uptake.
Head, Government Relations and External Affairs, Interac Corp.
One thing we did in 2021 was roll out a new product called Interac e-transfer for business. That product was designed to meet business needs. The transaction limits were increased. The data that flows with the transaction was increased. This helps businesses with invoice remittance and reconciliation. A number of features on that product were designed specifically with that audience in mind.
Liberal
Iqwinder Gaheer Liberal Mississauga—Malton, ON
For my last question, the only concern I've heard about e-transfers—there are articles written about this—are over the phishing campaigns that go on and the redirection of payments that can happen. If there is one digit wrong in that phone number, for example, or if the email is wrong and it's linked to someone's Autodeposit, that money is instantly transferred. I understand that it's almost impossible to get those funds back.
Has Interac looked at the process of getting funds back? What are they doing to increase security so this doesn't happen?
Head, Government Relations and External Affairs, Interac Corp.
It's a great question. I'm happy to provide some information.
You're correct. We've seen an increase in fraud across all sectors. I know the Canadian Anti-Fraud Centre has reported significant increases in fraud across a number of different sectors. We have been focused on how to ensure Canadians receive the money they're sent and sending money to the right person. This includes things like verifying email addresses and ensuring you have the right address. We do education campaigns around that.
We also focus quite significantly on patterns of fraud. We work to detect and mitigate fraud on the network. It's a very large focus for Interac and something that will continue to be a priority going forward.
Liberal
Iqwinder Gaheer Liberal Mississauga—Malton, ON
I understand the convenience of Interac e-transfer where the funds are almost immediately transferred. If someone were to incorrectly send the funds to the wrong account—once you put in more safety measures so this doesn't happen—would you then delay the time it takes for that money to be accessible to the receiver?
Head, Government Relations and External Affairs, Interac Corp.
In terms of the processing of an e-transfer transaction, you're correct. A number of transactions taking place are transmitted nearly in real time.
In terms of the speed, those decisions and transactions are often implemented and influenced by the financial institution involved. Based on risk factors and fraud checks in the system, there are a number of factors that go into this. Ultimately, the purpose is to ensure that any suspicious transactions are flagged and that there can be a process to ensure fraud is mitigated on the network.
Bloc
Jean-Denis Garon Bloc Mirabel, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Peters, would you be able to tell us approximately how many clients, how many businesses, use your services here in Canada and possibly in Quebec?
Director, Public Policy, Stripe
I'd like to get the Quebec-specific information to the extent I can, at least in a general sense.
We serve many thousands of businesses in Canada, and they come to Stripe because we actually increase their sales and we make payments easy—