Sure, I'll do that.
I'm surprised that the parliamentary secretary would deny having Telus and BCE come here. I don't know what their motives are anyway.
That's okay. I'll move to my questioning of Mr. Stanford.
With regard to the testimony, the reason I raised the point of order in terms of relevancy is not that climate change, carbon tax and all those different things can't impact the cost of groceries. That's obvious in many respects, but it distracts from the real problem that we have here.
What I've advocated for, Mr. Stanford, is a review of the borrowing practices of Canadians and the cost of those borrowing practices. Specifically, credit cards are now being used for essentials. They have high rates of interest on them, whereas, for example, at least a mortgage has a lower interest rate. Your concerns are well vetted in terms of the debt that's now on people.
My concern and question for you is, have we seen a shift in borrowing practices that Canadians have to do just to get by?
If we're leaving them in the situation—