Industry Committee on Nov. 7th, 2024

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Let's vote, then.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Quite frankly, I don't appreciate the member across shooting his mouth off while I have the floor.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

I'm just asking to vote.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

He's a con man, so I can understand why he's doing it.

Mr. Chair—

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

That's okay, Mr. Perkins.

Mr. Badawey, this is not language that I tolerate on this committee.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

He's a Conservative man.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

That's no more appropriate than saying “lie-beral”.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

No, Mr. Perkins.

I will ask you to withdraw these comments. You cannot call another member a con man.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, the other member shouldn't be treating members on the opposite side of the floor by shooting his mouth off while we have the floor.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

I agree, but what I'm asking you, Mr. Badawey, is to withdraw your comment.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Are we going to have that not happen?

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

I will do my best to maintain order.

You're right, Mr. Patzer, and I've said to members many times over the course of the last three years—

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

I'd appreciate him stopping shooting his mouth off from across the floor.

[A voice]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

—that this is not the House of Commons, where you can heckle. This is a committee—

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll withdraw that comment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Mr. Badawey.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

If I can finish, Mr. Chair, to the committee and, more importantly, to the witnesses, again, I appreciate your testimony today.

I appreciate that you are, Ms. Hamel, going through a process right now. I would only expect that once that process is complete, we can continue the dialogue we're having today. I do appreciate the comments from the other witnesses who gave testimony and are going to add to this overall process.

With that, Mr. Chair, again, I agree with Mr. Turnbull. With the process still to be undertaken and the information that's being asked to be produced under the motion, this is simply a waste of time, and therefore I won't be supporting the motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, MP Badawey.

MP Turnbull, go ahead.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Standard practice in most committees that I've been to, even when inviting witnesses or asking for documents, is that the first step is often to ask for those documents, which we did in this committee. I think the officials agreed to provide the exact same information, with one exception, which I'll talk about in a moment. That is item (c) in this motion, which I think is problematic.

What's interesting is that the committee members seem to be overzealous in jumping right into compelling our public servants here, who have offered to provide the very information that's being requested, in most cases, in this motion. Jumping to compelling them to do so is an overexertion of.... The committee can use its power to compel documents, to subpoena and to exert its authority as a parliamentary standing committee, but when it needs to do so.

I think we should be reserving that step for moments when we really feel that witnesses or individuals.... We've seen this with witnesses whom we've invited to the committee and we've issued numerous invites. They get slightly stronger in their language, basically saying, “Look, if you don't come willingly, we're going to compel you to do so.”

It's a process. We don't usually jump to saying, “You have to do this” without going through the previous steps. When we have witnesses who are sitting here and are saying, “Yes, we will provide the information,” that to me is just an abuse of our parliamentary power. That's my first argument.

The second point I want to make is that Mr. Masse said on the record that he was not asking for cabinet confidence advice to ministers. That's exactly what is being requested in this motion, so if Mr. Masse is supporting this motion but said on the record that he doesn't—

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Mr. Masse, go ahead on a point of order.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

I just want to remind the parliamentary secretary, as he wraps himself in the public service flag, that they also blocked whistle-blower legislation for public servants, refused pay equity and made racialized workers go to the Supreme Court to actually have their cases approved—

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Mr. Masse, I'm not sure that's a point of order. It sounds more like a point of debate.

On that note, colleagues, we're nearing the end. It's 10:14.