Industry Committee on Nov. 28th, 2024

[Iqwinder Gaheer, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I had the same concern as MP Badawey, that we haven't received any communication from Bell or Telus, and we passed a UC motion last week to invite them as well. I'm wondering whether, in your judgment, we should amend or subamend this motion to include them, or we should wait and see what happens.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

I think it would be premature, given that we passed the motion to invite Bell and Telus last Thursday and they were invited last Thursday.

In the case of Rogers, we passed a motion at the end of October and we had discussions through the clerk to make sure that Mr. Staffieri would appear before this committee on November 28, and at the very last minute, he cancelled his appearance.

I think it would be premature, but know that they are invited as part of the study, Mr. Gaheer.

[Iqwinder Gaheer, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

I think that if the CEOs of the different companies appeared together at the same meeting, it would be useful, because the questions are going to overlap.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

That is my understanding too, as I've just outlined it. Thank you, MP Gaheer.

Are there any other comments on the amendment? Do I need to put it to a vote, or is there unanimous consent on the amendment proposed by Mr. Perkins, as subamended by Mr. Masse to remove Mr. Bains?

(Amendment as amended agreed to)

It is adopted unanimously, which brings us to the motion as amended. Looking at the room, I think it is also passed unanimously.

(Motion as amended agreed to)

Thank you very much. That's that dealt with.

Mr. Perkins, are you going to move another motion unrelated to the topic? In that case, I will liberate Mr. Leech.

Mr. Leech, I hope you relay what you've heard to Mr. Staffieri. As I mentioned in my opening remarks, a lot of resources go behind the organization of these committee meetings. It's a solemn occasion to answer to Canadians through MPs, and to cancel at the very last minute, I think you've heard loud and clear, is quite disrespectful, so I hope we'll be able to hear from Mr. Staffieri in the next seven days.

Thank you very much for your presence today, Mr. Leech, and I wish you a good day.

Mr. Perkins.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have a motion on notice that I'd like to move with regard to Telesat. It's been there for a while, and somebody might have to propose a slight amendment to it. It's because of the timing issue.

I can't propose an amendment to it. I would suggest that one of my colleagues look at that when we do it:

That, in relation to the Government of Canada's recent $2.1-billion loan to Telesat, the committee agree to hold two meetings examining the feasibility and business case justifying the deal within 14 days following the adoption of this motion—

That's the part that will have to be corrected in the motion. It goes on:

and the committee agree to invite the following witnesses....

I think we may have had some chat on this before. I think (a) has been corrected by MP Turnbull in terms of who the current deputy minister of ISED is, and then there's Daniel Goldberg.

I don't think we voted on it, did we?

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

I'll verify with the clerk to be sure, because I believe we dealt with that issue.

Let me verify. I'll take a minute, colleagues.

We voted on it. Thank God someone is paying attention.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Chair, the interpreters have informed us that the motion was not sent in French. It would be helpful to have it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Actually, I believe the motion has already been adopted so we cannot discuss it any further.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

That's why the interpreters didn't receive it. Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

I believe it has already been adopted, but I would like to check something with the clerk. If memory serves me well, we resolved that during the meeting on committee business. I will check that in the minutes.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Can we still ask our colleagues to send the French version of the motion?

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Just a minute, Mr. Savard‑Tremblay. If the motion has already been adopted, this is all to no avail. The clerk cannot be in two places at once.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Very well, I have just received it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

I will suspend for a minute.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Okay. We're back, colleagues.

Mr. Perkins, this is moot, given that the motion was adopted last Thursday.

You still have the floor.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I will move to resume debate, because I don't believe we voted on the motion I had on Mastercard's production of documents.

Members will recall that, as part of the credit card study that MP Masse put forward, we had Mastercard and Visa here, and we had some discussion during that meeting around the government support for the cybersecurity centre and the $15 million that Mastercard received from taxpayers.

I will just remind members that the motion we tabled and, I believe, began debate on but did not vote on, was as follows:

That the committee order the production of all documents, emails, memos and any materials related to the [Liberal] government's $50-million [handout] to Mastercard, including all communications between ISED, PCO or PMO and Mastercard regarding the grant; and that the committee report to the House to express its concern regarding the value for money for taxpayers on the nearly 50 million taxpayer dollars given to Mastercard by the [Trudeau Liberal] government.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, MP Perkins.

Had we started the debate on this, but then it was adjourned? Was the meeting adjourned?

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I think that's what it was, but I'll check.

Is that correct?

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Yes. I'll suspend for a minute to make sure that all MPs have it before their eyes.

I want to make sure the motion was sent, Mr. Savard‑Tremblay, particularly since I don't think you were here when we discussed it.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

I have received a copy, but the interpreter doesn't have it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Okay.

I will suspend for two minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

We'll resume debate on the motion proposed by Mr. Perkins, which he's read into the record.

Do I have any speakers on the motion that Mr. Perkins has presented?

Mr. Savard‑Tremblay, I want to make sure you received the correct motion. Do you have it before you?

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Yes, I have what I need. Since you have opened the door, I have a question for Mr. Perkins, if I may.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Yes, of course.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Perkins, I admit that I am not keen on the idea, but I am willing to change my mind. You just have to convince me.

To me, it appears quite simply to be a very conventional research and development grant. At first glance, there doesn't seem to be anything fishy about it, which doesn't mean there isn't. If we start doing this for every fairly conventional research and development grant, it will never end.

I am not a fan of Mastercard, which has a near monopoly. That is not the issue. I would however like you to explain the reason for this motion: Do you have more serious doubts? In other words, why are you doing this? At first glance, I don't understand.