Industry Committee on May 10th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you very much, Madame Gray.

We'll now move to Mr. Dong for six minutes.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair.

I want to also wish Mr. Ballingall a happy birthday. Thank you for your very informative presentation.

[Michael J. Ballingall]

Thank you.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

I want to dig a little deeper into your presentation with regard to the LMIA. My impression of the program is that it was designed to eliminate possible competition between domestic skilled labour and foreign skilled labour. Is that still the case, or is that still effective, given the circumstances right now, especially in your industry?

[Michael J. Ballingall]

I can speak intelligently to the ski instructors using this program. It's not an effective visa program at all. In the country of Canada we have approximately 25,000 certified ski instructors. Fewer than 10% of them are active ski instructors working in the field. We go to places like Australia and New Zealand and the U.K. when they're in their summer seasons. We've been training instructors down there for some 25 years. They came here on working holiday visas, where they could have multiple times in and out of the country. This worked very well for us.

When we went to the LMIA process, that particular person could only work as a ski instructor in the resorts. We couldn't use them to wait on tables, to attend carnival nights, and yet they're skilled hospitality guest service types of people. That visa program just simply didn't work for us, and a lot of the ski industry is no longer using it.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

Thank you. That's good to know.

Was this a problem prior to the pandemic?

[Michael J. Ballingall]

Yes. When it came to the cost of a thousand dollars to pay for accommodation and airfare, it just became too restrictive.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

Gotcha. Throughout the pandemic, and especially towards the end, would you agree that vaccination was a big part of the solution for us to taper off the number of those infected in the population and the peaks at the hospitals? Would you agree with that?

[Michael J. Ballingall]

We, in the company that I work for, and certainly in our industry, believe in the science of vaccinations. We believe that people visited our resorts in greater numbers because they knew everyone a the resort would be vaccinated. Everyone visiting the restaurants, they knew, would be vaccinated; therefore, the confidence to visit the area was high. We also see that after the vaccination mandates were lifted, some of the counts have gone up in some places across the country. Certainly the United States is experiencing that more than we are here in Canada, but we're coming into our heavy spring/summer season, and the numbers are not going in the right direction for us.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

I'm actually quite worried about the tourism sector, as you are, especially when the summer is coming and it's the high season for our SMEs to make some recovery.

As far as I know with respect to the restrictions at the border, right now anybody who is vaccinated can come to Canada. There's no restriction. I believe that's the main purpose of the ArriveCAN app. Imagine if everyone at the border had to show various papers and whatnot. If they can do that before they enter, that will cut down the transition time at the border. I just want to make that clear: ArriveCAN was to filter those who are vaccinated from the unvaccinated. Would you say that's a smart move, whether or not the technical part is working out? I just want to separate the issues into the technical part and the intent.

[Michael J. Ballingall]

I think we would all agree that if you could get into Canada quicker using whatever technique and technical assets that you have in front of you, it would be best for all of us. We also all believe that coming to Canada as a vaccinated person would be better for all of us, but the technology is getting in the way.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

Thank you, sir.

I want to move on to Professor Larkin.

Throughout the pandemic, we've seen reports now of large corporations like Loblaw being accused of taking advantage of inflation to increase the price across the board and drive up profits. We've seen historic profits being recorded.

Do you think that large corporations have an unfair advantage in the Canadian economy?

[Dr. Yelena Larkin]

Absolutely. The increase in inflation and prices has affected firms of all sizes, but I believe that large corporations can weather it much better and use their potential relative purchasing power to—

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

What do you suggest that the government can do, in terms of policy, to mitigate that problem?

[Dr. Yelena Larkin]

Are you asking about specifically mitigating inflation and transferring the increase in prices onto consumers or...a broader question?

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

Should we do something about the behaviour of the large corporations, their market share and historic profits?

[Dr. Yelena Larkin]

Absolutely. I think it feeds into this bigger picture that points to structural change and the increasing power of large corporations that needs to be somehow addressed. This is a great question, but not an easy one to answer. I believe the solution has to stem from multiple channels and through multiple avenues.

I had mentioned in my talk that revamping the Competition Act may be one way to go about it. Overall, even giving the Competition Bureau more power to prosecute cases of, let's say, price fixing or false advertising—which unfortunately still exist and are fined quite lightly—could be another way to go.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Professor Larkin.

Mr. Lemire, you have six minutes.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

If I may, I will begin with Ms. O'Born, from the council of Canadian innovators, the CCI.

The CCI has presented a talent and competency management strategy, which includes 13 recommendation for talent and competency management, several of which offer specific solutions.

First of all, Ms. O'Born, can you tell us about this strategy, and in particular the recommendation about attracting talent?

[Dana O'Born]

Certainly. I hope it's okay that I'm going to be responding in English.

Thank you for the question. Talent attraction spans a number of issues that can help alleviate some of the shortages in Canada right now. I'll unpack a few of those recommendations. I believe everybody on the committee received a copy of our recommendations in both French and English.

Number one on attraction was to introduce a high-potential tech visa. This actually might be interesting for you, too, Michael. Happy birthday, as well.

This is the idea of giving the most in-demand professionals a path to Canada without a job offer in hand. I just want to make note of this because since the time of the writing, we've actually seen this piloted with the federal government on some of the solutions being offered now to Ukrainian nationals making their way to Canada. There is a bit of a precedent here in offering an open-ended work visa. That was one of the pieces.

We also propose the idea of launching a digital nomad strategy to make Canada a destination for increasing remote workers. Labour shortages mean a variety of things, but everybody is effectively working from home and this has actually now turned into a benefit for many workers. How do we attract some of that talent that may not be on Canadian soil?

Another is reviewing and revising the national occupation classification, which are the codes that effectively place individuals into certain categories of attraction and retention. The conversations with IRCC and ESDC have commenced, but that needs to be expanded on and accelerated.

Easing pathways to permanent residency is something that was talked about in several platforms in the previous election. We need to figure out what that actually looks like for international skilled labour coming to Canada with a guarantee that there's an opportunity to stay here longer term.

Expanding the recognition of international and alternative credentials is also something that we've talked about. Everybody learns differently now and there's a different suite of education that takes place across the globe. How do we encourage people who may not have...exactly the talent as we have identified it, but companies are looking to hire them here in Canada?

Finally, we recommend enhancing the global skills strategy immigration program. We're optimistic that with the right service standard, a targeted 48-hour visa processing time could be accomplished.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Do you think a change to the immigration program designed to broaden the pool of workers would be one way to identify talent?

Your recommendations focus on global talent and include making it easier to obtain permanent residency. Do you think that is an avenue that we should focus more on?

We hear that a lot of workers would like to be able to live here in the long term, but are not able to do that in the current framework.

[Dana O'Born]

It's a great question.

I will always say that there's no silver bullet for addressing this problem. Two years ago, prepandemic, the circumstances were very different. The 13 recommendations that we put forward highlight a number of issues that could alleviate the pressures that SMEs are facing right now when trying to find skilled labour.

Platform commitments should be followed through on. A commitment to easing pathways for permanent residency was a commitment made in the last election by the Liberal Party, but there needs to be a plethora of strategies approached across the board. This also includes considering what some of the provincial nominee program numbers look like in terms of expanding opportunities for provinces to designate where they feel skilled labour needs to be channelled, and to what sectors and industries.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

You suggest an additional component in the temporary foreign workers program, a high-tech visa. This type of visa would be for high-tech workers only, but would not require a firm offer of employment.

Are other organizations in favour of this change? Has the government shown interest in your proposal thus far?

[Dana O'Born]

That's a great question as well. Thank you.

It's one that we've borrowed from the United Kingdom. It was circling around some public policy think tanks.

We've had some really progressive conversations with MPs of all colours, as well as with some of the folks on the government and civil service side. There is an openness to considering a strategy like this and, as I mentioned previously, there is a precedent that's being set now with what's happening with Ukrainian nationals.

I want to make sure that I'm acknowledging that the two circumstances are very different, but this idea of expanding the pool of talent and skilled labour in Canada will have great benefits for companies that are looking to fill roles and fill them quickly.