Evidence of meeting #4 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was transaction.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Simon Kennedy  Deputy Minister, Department of Industry
Jeff Labonté  Assistant Deputy Minister, Lands and Minerals Sector, Department of Natural Resources
Cherie Henderson  Assistant Director, Requirements, Canadian Security Intelligence Service

5:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound

Good evening, everyone. I call this meeting to order. Welcome to meeting number 4 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Industry and Technology.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Thursday, January 20, 2022, the committee is meeting to continue its study on critical minerals. Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House order of Thursday, November 25, 2021. Members are attending in person in the room or remotely using the Zoom application. As for the health rules that are in place, I think everyone is familiar with them by now. Those who are present in Ottawa should therefore take the necessary precautions.

That said, I will introduce the witnesses who are doing us the honour of appearing tonight, and whom we thank.

We have the Honourable François-Philippe Champagne, who is the member of Parliament for Saint-Maurice-Champlain and Minister of Innovation, Science and Industry; Ms. Cherie Anderson, Assistant Director of Requirements at the Canadian Security Intelligence Service; Mr. Simon Kennedy, Deputy Minister at the Department of Industry; Ms. Katherine Burke, Director General of the Investment Review Branch; Mr. Jeff Labonté, Assistant Deputy Minister, Lands and Minerals Sector, Department of Natural Resources; Dominic Rochon, Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, National Security and Cyber Security Sector, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness.

Without further ado, we will begin with opening remarks by Minister Champagne, who is scheduled to leave at 6:30 p.m. As for the officials, they will be present to answer questions from members of Parliament throughout the meeting, until 7:30 p.m. I wanted to convey that information to the members of the committee.

Minister, you have the floor.

5:35 p.m.

Saint-Maurice—Champlain Québec

Liberal

François-Philippe Champagne LiberalMinister of Innovation

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Colleagues, thank you for welcoming me to the committee this evening. I would like to take this opportunity to wish you a happy 2022.

I also thank you for the opportunity to set the record straight on Canada's approach to the review of foreign investments, particularly those involving critical minerals.

First of all, let me be very clear with all Canadians watching tonight. Under the Investment Canada Act—or, as we call it, the ICA—all foreign investments are subject to a thorough review. This process is agnostic of country or industry and applies regardless of the value of the investment. It is a multistep process led by my department and Canada's national security and intelligence agencies.

Investments in critical minerals receive immense scrutiny. As you will recall, in March 2021 I was the one who updated the publicly available national security guidelines to make it clear to the world that we will apply this enhanced scrutiny when critical minerals are implicated. As a former minister of infrastructure and of international trade, as well as foreign affairs, I have been thinking about these issues from a number of angles and for many, many years. That is the perspective I now bring as Minister of Industry of Canada.

Transactions involving critical minerals are systematically and thoroughly reviewed and scrutinized. Neo Lithium was no exception. Let me be very clear: Neo Lithium was reviewed by the government and national security experts, full stop.

Let's be clear, we will not compromise on national security issues. That is our top priority.

The national security review framework built into the act is a critical tool that allows us to protect Canada from these threats.

Now, I understand that not everyone is familiar with how the ICA works, so let me provide some details on the process.

From day one, security and intelligence agencies assess information and intelligence related to the Canadian asset being acquired or business being established, the terms of the investment and the foreign investor. This often includes consultations with Canada's allies.

Following these consultations, investments that could be injurious to national security are referred to the Governor in Council, who may order a further extended review under section 25.3 of the act. If the transaction does not meet the legal threshold to extend the review further, meaning it is found to not be injurious to Canada's national security, then the process ends.

People mistake the extended review as being the only one in which national security concerns are taken into consideration. Let me be clear that a section 25.3 order is not required for the security and intelligence agencies and other investigative bodies to review an investment: From the moment we become aware of a proposed investment, the legal authorities to investigate under the act are exactly the same through each period of the multistep review process.

It is this review process that was followed in the case of Neo Lithium. Those who claim that a national security review was not done in this case are simply, knowingly or unknowingly, misrepresenting the facts. Instead, they are cherry-picking and jumping ahead to another step in the process that is further down the chain of verifications under the ICA.

There was sufficient information to make a determination at that stage of the review that no national security harm could arise as a result of this transaction.

Let me repeat this in French: the Neo Lithium transaction was carefully reviewed by experts, and no harm or risk to Canada's national security was identified to warrant an extension of the review.

It must be noted that by law there are stringent confidentiality requirements to protect both the commercially sensitive information shared by companies during a review and any classified information relating to Canada's national security.

It is public knowledge and worth repeating here that although Neo Lithium is domiciled and incorporated in Canada, the mine is in Argentina, the operations of the company are in Argentina and all but a handful of its employees are based in Argentina.

Finally, we are going to be talking a lot about critical minerals in the years ahead—at least, I hope so—so let's clarify certain things.

One could be misled into thinking that all critical minerals are inherently the same and of equal value. The reality is that critical minerals come in many forms, with varying degrees of importance to Canada's supply chain. Each deserves its own consideration and action.

We understand the importance of critical minerals. That's why, in Budget 2021, our government announced funding to improve Canada's supply of critical minerals.

In addition, Minister Wilkinson and I are developing a Canadian critical minerals strategy, in addition to our $8 billion investment in the Net Zero Accelerator initiative, to attract major investments across the electric vehicle battery supply chain.

In the case of lithium and battery production, for example, there is lithium carbonate and there is lithium hydroxide. Electric battery production in North America does not require or rely on imports of lithium carbonate. Even a cursory look at the market shows that lithium hydroxide is the product preferred by automakers, manufacturers, cathode suppliers and consumers in North America, Europe and Japan for electric vehicle battery production.

Factors such as the nature and strategic value to Canada of the mineral deposits involved, the ability of Canadian supply chains to exploit the asset, Canada's projected ability to produce a commodity itself, global commodity prices, current geopolitical circumstances and the nature of the Canadian business are all taken into consideration when determining what constitutes a national security concern. These are some of the important factors the government considers when deciding whether an investment is a potential risk to Canada's national security.

I would say, Mr. Chair, that it is irresponsible to brush them aside for a good headline. Canadians deserve a sober, thoughtful and factual conversation on this matter. Our government's record makes it abundantly clear that where national security is concerned, we do not hesitate to take decisive action, and our assessment of risk keeps pace with evolving economic and geopolitical circumstances.

Thank you [Technical difficulty].

5:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound

Thank you, Minister.

Before we start, witnesses, try to keep your answers as proportionate to the questions as possible.

Colleagues, I've stolen a trick from the previous chair, the former chair of this committee: A yellow card means 30 seconds; red means time's up.

We'll start, for six minutes, with Mr. Fast.

The floor is yours.

5:40 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

Minister, thank you for appearing before our committee.

I want to assure you that we are doing our job and bringing sober thought to a very serious issue, which is Canada's national security and the security of our supply chains in a burgeoning lithium battery industry in the world.

Minister, you are aware of the revised Investment Canada Act guidelines, which you released, which call for enhanced scrutiny of transactions involving state-owned enterprises.

5:40 p.m.

Liberal

François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

Indeed I am, Mr. Fast, because I'm the one who, as you said, instructed the department to publish them.

5:40 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

You're aware of the updated ICA guidelines that were released about a year later, calling for enhanced scrutiny of deals involving critical minerals.

5:40 p.m.

Liberal

François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

Indeed I am, because I'm the one who issued the guidelines.

5:40 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

Critical minerals include lithium. Is that correct?

5:40 p.m.

Liberal

François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

Indeed.

5:40 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

Are you familiar with the Canada-U.S. joint action plan on critical minerals collaboration—and I emphasize “collaboration”—which was established to improve information sharing when it comes to critical minerals and rare earths, signed in 2020?

5:45 p.m.

Liberal

François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

Yes, I am.

5:45 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

All right. That plan calls for much greater collaboration between Canada and the United States when it comes to the security of our critical minerals supply chains. Is that correct?

5:45 p.m.

Liberal

François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

Indeed.

5:45 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

When exactly were you made aware of a proposal for Zijin Mining Group, a state-owned enterprise out of China, to purchase the Canadian critical minerals company Neo Lithium?

5:45 p.m.

Liberal

François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

Let me be clear with you, Mr. Fast, and with all Canadians who are watching. There was absolutely a national security review when it came to the Neo Lithium transaction. That transaction was reviewed by all the relevant departments within the Government of Canada—

5:45 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

Actually, that wasn't my question.

5:45 p.m.

Liberal

François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

—our national security agencies and intelligence agencies.

5:45 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

Minister, with respect—

5:45 p.m.

Liberal

François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

Let me just finish.

5:45 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

My question was, “When?”

5:45 p.m.

Liberal

François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

It was subject to immense scrutiny according to our own guidelines, which I published in March of last year.

5:45 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

Minister, that wasn't the question I asked.

When exactly were you made aware of this transaction?

5:45 p.m.

Liberal

François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

The power to investigate starts the moment we're aware of the transaction. I can assure you and all Canadians that in all circumstances not only will we review the transaction in terms of national security but, as you said, Mr. Fast—

5:45 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

So I assume—

5:45 p.m.

Liberal

François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

You were a very experienced minister at the time. This transaction was subject to enhanced scrutiny under the guidelines that you just referred to.