Evidence of meeting #58 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was companies.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Simon Kennedy  Deputy Minister, Department of Industry
Mark Schaan  Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategy and Innovation Policy Sector, Science and Economic Development Canada, Department of Industry
Francis Bilodeau  Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Industry

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound

I call the meeting to order.

Ladies and gentlemen, colleagues, welcome to meeting No. 58 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Industry and Technology.

Pursuant to the order of reference of Monday, December 12, 2022, we are meeting on the mandate of the Minister of Innovation, Science and Industry.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House Order of Thursday, June 23, 2022.

We are fortunate to have with us today Mr. François-Philippe Champagne, M.P. and Minister of Innovation, Science and Industry. He is accompanied by Simon Kennedy, the deputy minister of the Department of Industry.

Thank you, Minister, for having accepted our invitation.

You are aware of how we proceed with the meetings of our committee. Without further ado, you have the floor for 10 minutes.

3:45 p.m.

Saint-Maurice—Champlain Québec

Liberal

François-Philippe Champagne LiberalMinister of Innovation

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to begin by thanking my esteemed colleagues. You are members of one of the House of Commons committees that plays a key role in assuring Canada's long-term prosperity. It's therefore a pleasure to be with you as we inform and define the industrial policy that will make Canada prosperous for generations to come.

Mr. Chair, as you know, it's a pleasure for me to appear before the committee today. I apologize for last time, but I think I was scheduled and some things happened.

This committee is so critical to informing, shaping and advancing our industrial policy, as I was saying. I'm grateful for the thoughts, the work and the leadership of the committee in helping us to shape the best possible industrial policy.

As 2023 unfolds, the Canadian and global economies continue to change rapidly. Profound forces are reshaping whole industries as well as domestic and global supply chains. We are living in a time of a green and digital transformation of our economy, and this opens generational opportunities for Canada. A digital revolution is transforming how and where business is done, a phenomenon being driven by frontier technologies such as AI, quantum and biotech.

I want to say that this morning I announced further investment in AI at Scale AI, one of our global innovation clusters.

Coming back from Washington...and some of the members were with me.

Sébastien Lemire, among others, was with me in Washington last week. I can tell you that our American neighbours acknowledge Canada's leadership in artificial intelligence, quantum computing and cyber security. It is technologies like these that will move us forward in the 21st-century economy.

The impacts of climate change are becoming more obvious every day, driving governments, investors and consumers to demand low-carbon green products and services. Finally, the pandemic, the war in Ukraine and a complex geopolitical environment have underlined the risk of volatile supply chains and a need for adaptability and resiliency.

I continue going back to my trip to Washington last week with the Minister of Defence. Resilient supply chains was the topic that everyone wanted to talk about with Canada.

Countries are recognizing that, in the future, strong and resilient economies will need to be digital, sustainable and driven by scientific and technological excellence. As such, we have worked diligently to create the conditions for Canada's success.

Canada has a unique opportunity—a generational opportunity, as I have said before—to become a leader in the economy of tomorrow. I've often said that Canada has everything needed for a 21st century economy, by which I mean a sustainable, knowledge-based economy with a greater emphasis on digital technology.

I believe that Canada can be the strategic partner of choice for our allies around the world, because we have what a 21st-century economy requires.

That's the vision and the message that I shared in Tokyo, Berlin, Seoul, London and Brussels during my recent visits there, as well as in Washington, where I was last week, as I mentioned earlier.

For many of our strategic trading partners, the question is no longer “why Canada?”, but rather “how and when Canada?” They realize that we have what very few countries can offer. We have the five elements that drive investment.

The first is talent. Canada is still a very big magnet for talent. My colleague Sébastien Lemire heard me say that more than once in all of our meetings.

The second thing is strong ecosystems, which you see in the auto sector, the EV industry, aerospace and biomanufacturing.

We have key natural resources, like critical minerals, to be able to manufacture the batteries and semiconductors.

We have abundant renewable energy. As supply chains are getting greener, we can produce green steel and green aluminum, and we hope to produce green batteries and green semiconductors.

Finally is the access to market. I always remind people around the world—and you've heard me say this, Mr. Chair—that we're not a country of 38 million people, but a country that gives preferential market access to 1.5 billion consumers. That is a message that is resonating around the world.

I don't need to tell you that, more than ever, proximity to resources, markets and assembly lines are dictating investment decisions. That's why Canada has been winning a number of strategic investments recently. Supply chains are going from global to regional, with more emphasis on resiliency than pure efficiency. These new market dynamics play very well to Canada's strengths.

Mr. Chair, allow me to illustrate my point with a few concrete examples.

In the life sciences and biomanufacturing sector, we've made huge investments to better protect Canadians' health and ensure their safety. For example, we attracted leading companies to Canada, like Moderna in Montreal, we strengthened the foothold and presence of leaders in Canada, like Sanofi in Toronto, and supported innovative domestic companies like Vancouver-based AbCellera.

In the aerospace sector, projects worth nearly $2 billion have been launched, challenging industry leaders to look to the future and invest in sustainable aviation, including hybrid propulsion and biofuels. I can tell you that major manufacturing companies are looking at what's happening in these leading-edge areas in Canada. For example, the president of Boeing told us that he was well aware of what was happening here.

In the automotive sector, we're on track for the next 20 to 30 years. We're helping build a complete EV and battery ecosystem, from mining to recycling, attracting the likes of GM‑POSCO, Umicore and LG‑Stellantis, which is building the first battery giga-factory in Canada.

BloombergNEF, As you may have seen, recently ranked Canada's battery ecosystem in second place, behind China and ahead of countries like the United States. It's interesting to note that in less than a year we've succeeded in carving out an enviable position for ourselves in electric vehicle manufacturing.

We not only secured key commitments from all the major automakers already in Canada but also recently signed strategic agreements with Volkswagen and Mercedes-Benz during the German Chancellor's visit.

We are also helping to decarbonize key industries like steel, in partnership with ArcelorMittal Dofasco and Algoma Steel, and green aluminum, with Rio Tinto and Alcoa. That's the well-known Elysis project recognized around the world.

In short, through strategic investments, we are positioning Canada to lead in key economic sectors central to a green 21st-century economy.

But our vision doesn't end there.

We must redouble our efforts if we are to become leaders in hydrogen production. We need to turbocharge investments in cleantech, agtech, biotech and fintech. And we must seriously consider the possibility of producing semiconductors here in Canada, thus integrating the country into the North American value chain. You've no doubt heard me before on the subject of the Albany-Bromont corridor. I also talked about it when I was in Washington. Establishing this corridor would put us in a key position for semiconductors in North America.

My mandate also includes scientific research and development, which are at the very core and key drivers of innovation. Someone recently told me the research of today is the economy of tomorrow. I don't think it could be better said.

That's why we recently recapitalized the pan-Canadian artificial intelligence strategy with more than $443 million in support of commercialization, standardization, talent and research. We also announced more than $360 million to our national quantum strategy to capitalize on Canada's leadership position in quantum.

The good news is that it's already bearing fruit, with Canadian champions like Xanadu. I don't know if colleagues know, but Xanadu is the only company in the world that has a quantum computer that is dedicated to battery chemistry. Everyone you talk to around the world in the OEMs knows about Xanadu. This is a real Canadian champion. This is about applied quantum, which is making a difference.

We have also doubled down on our commitment to invest in research and development, so that we can ensure our competitiveness.

This morning I announced not only that we would double down on AI, but that we are further investing $750 million in the global innovation clusters program. We will be working with our partners in the private sector to generate significant investment.

This funding will help scale up innovative ecosystems in areas of significant Canadian competitive advantage, including digital economies, which we see a lot in western Canada; the protein industries, which is how we can feed the world with plant protein; and advanced manufacturing, which is serving our ecosystem well. I know my colleague Brian Masse knows all about that. It also includes artificial intelligence, which we already have a head start on for supply chain and logistics; and finally, ocean technologies for colleagues on the east coast, where Canada is also punching above its weight.

We are also launching a new lab-to-market platform to help graduate students and researchers commercialize their work. There are new targeted scholarships and fellowships for promising Black student researchers. We will soon be announcing a cohort of new, internationally recruited Canada excellence research chairs in the STEM fields.

Mr. Chair, before I conclude my remarks, I want to take the opportunity—briefly, because I see my time is going fast—to say a word about an issue that recently made some headlines regarding research security.

First, let me be very clear to Canadians who are watching. Protecting Canadian research and intellectual property against foreign interference, espionage and theft is our government's top priority—and it is my top priority. That's why, in 2021, I issued national security guidelines for research partnerships, investing $160 million to help universities build their internal capacity.

That said, it is clear that more needs to be done. We all need to do more, including the provinces and universities. As I said to the science committee, we'll be coming up with new mandatory rules to make sure that we tighten up in light of what we're seeing.

That's why, earlier this month, I directed the Canada Foundation for Innovation—or I will be directing them very shortly—to take a new and stronger posture when it comes to research security. All the granting agencies will have new mandatory guidelines they will need to follow in order to protect our research in light of what we've seen. I will also write to representatives of Canada's universities to urge them to do likewise for all their research partnerships and, more particularly, the partnerships involving sensitive research.

My message is this: We're going to do more. The provinces need to do more. The universities need to to do more. That, I think, is how we are going to be protecting.

I'd say that Canada has never been as well positioned as it is now to leverage industrial innovation to achieve a sustainable and resilient economic future. Canada has never been in such a strong position to become a key strategic partner for the whole world.

We need to be ambitious and to seize this opportunity to make Canada a leader in the economy of the 21st century.

Thank you.

I'd be happy to answer your questions.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound

Thank you very much, Minister.

Without further ado, I'll give the floor to Mr. Perkins to get the discussion under way.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister. I know that I speak for all of us when I say that I wish we had the full two hours with you, because we have lots of things to cover.

I see that you were in Washington last week, and that there was a balloon drop done for you, presumably by China, maybe. Maybe that's because this government has been so open towards Chinese investment in Canada.

To start off, I'd like to ask you this. Without any national security review, your predecessor allowed the takeover of the Tanco mine, Canada's only lithium-producing mine, in 2019, by Sinomine, a Chinese state-owned enterprise. I'm wondering why, last year, when you, as minister, asked three Chinese state-owned enterprises to divest of their lithium holdings, you didn't ask that Tanco be included in that as well.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

First of all, thank you for the question.

There is nothing more important than protecting our national security, as you would know, Mr. Perkins. That's why I even proposed that we amend the Investment Canada Act, just to make sure that we have more tools to protect our national security.

If you recall, at that time, as you said, I blocked the three potential Chinese takeovers of Canadian mines. You will note that, under the law, the law does not allow a retrospective view of certain transactions. That's why you've seen me, at many steps along the way, strengthen the rules when it comes to state-owned enterprises and, in this case, to make sure that we would protect national security. Not only did we do that but, you'll remember, when it came to sensitive sectors and when it comes to critical minerals, I've been very clear that I will stand up for Canadian national interests.

Today, going back to the Washington trip, I think our colleagues understand more and more that national security and economic prosperity go hand in hand.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

I don't want to interrupt but I have limited time.

I understand that, so I assume that you're open to looking at that as an issue—the retroactivity of some of these things.

On that trip to Washington, you met with a number of aerospace companies, including Boeing. There have been reports, in terms of the replacement of the Aurora aircraft, that you and your colleague the Minister of National Defence are not looking at an open bidding process for that. In fact, you are maybe excluding some of our important Canadian aerospace companies from the bidding on the replacement of that.

Can you confirm for us today that it will be an open bidding process for Canadian companies?

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

First of all, I would like to thank you.

In fact, the purpose of the meeting, if I may say—and I'll come to your question—of the trip to Washington was to draw investment back into Canada, to tell these big aerospace and defence firms that there needs to be a bit more balance when it comes to investment, just like we did in the auto sector. I said that we need to have this kind of vision that there would be investments on both sides of the border. I think this was a message that needed to be conveyed to these companies. You mentioned Boeing. That's exactly what we said.

When it comes to procurement, Mr. Perkins, that is a matter for the Minister of Procurement. What I can say is that we always strive to make sure that Canadian companies.... In fact, I think that Canadian companies have no better partners than me, the Minister of National Defence and the Minister of Procurement when it comes to insisting that in these major programs there is Canadian content, not only in the Canadian fleet but also in the global fleet. I'm happy to say to Canadians—and I'll give you more time—that there will be a piece of Canada in every F-35 jet flying around the world.

4 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

I understand that because they make F-35 jet parts in my riding in Lunenburg. The issue is about Canada buying replacements for its own planes, and there have been reports that you and the minister will not be allowing Canadian firms. I'm glad to hear that you're open to having Canadian firms bid on that contract.

4 p.m.

Liberal

François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

Not only did we do that, Mr. Perkins, but we also did more than that. We insisted and we advocated. We're part of their marketing team. When we go to Washington, it's about protecting Canadian jobs. It's about making sure that Canadian companies will be part of those big programs.

4 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

I get that, Minister. My question wasn't about the U.S.'s purchases of planes; it was about Canada's.

I'm going to go on to my next question.

Rogers has set a date of this Friday for your approval of the sale of Freedom to Quebecor. We're assuming that you're going to deal with the Rogers deadline of Friday and make a pronouncement.

In the past, Quebecor has made vast commitments to Canada, in getting spectrum in English Canada, that it will create another carrier, and in every single instance, it has betrayed that commitment to the Government of Canada. It has actually sold that spectrum for a $331-million profit on an asset the Canadian taxpayer owns.

In this process, Vidéotron, once again, has put forward a business plan to the Competition Tribunal to try to convince it that it means it this time—after selling 100 licences. I am skeptical because past behaviour dictates future behaviour.

Will you, as minister, make the business plan that convinced the tribunal that this is an acceptable deal a condition of fulfillment of the licence transfer, and make the commitment that, if they do not live up to that, they will have their spectrum removed?

4 p.m.

Liberal

François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

First of all, I'm not bound by any artificial deadline. I'm the regulator. I will make my decision whenever I come to the conclusion that we have looked at every aspect, particularly the decision of the Federal Court of Appeal.

I want to be very clear with Canadians: There is no deadline. I'm reviewing, obviously, all the facts with respect to this transaction.

Let me be clear, Mr. Perkins. You and I have the same objective. My mission is to reduce prices for cellphone plans in Canada. That's the mission, and that's what I've been relentless about, making sure this will happen. We know that the best way to reduce prices—

4 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

On the question of the business plan...?

4 p.m.

Liberal

François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

The best way to do that is through competition. What we have found in Canada is that it's to have a fourth national player.

One thing is sure: I have Canadians' backs. I understand that, at a time of high inflation, people want to see their cellphone bills go down. You've heard me before. Even before the Competition Tribunal went out, I said that, for whomever was going to come in front of me, there would be very specific conditions. One of them was no flipping.

4 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

They can flip after 10 years, though.

4 p.m.

Liberal

François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

The other one was that the low rates you're seeing in Quebec would be applied in British Columbia, Alberta and Ontario.

You can rest assured, Mr. Perkins, that, as a lawyer, I'll make sure every t is crossed and every i is dotted to make sure Canadians are protected. That's my duty to Canadians.

4 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound

Thank you, Minister.

I'm giving the floor now to Ms. Lapointe for six minutes.

4 p.m.

Liberal

Viviane LaPointe Liberal Sudbury, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good day, Minister. It's a pleasure to have you with us today.

4 p.m.

Liberal

François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

Thank you, Ms. Lapointe, it's a pleasure to be here.

4 p.m.

Liberal

Viviane LaPointe Liberal Sudbury, ON

Minister, we know that critical minerals are essential to achieve our climate targets and for manufacturing electric vehicles and batteries.

Can you tell the committee how the government prioritizes this sector and how our investments have been used effectively so far?

4 p.m.

Liberal

François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

Thank you for asking me a question about critical minerals. It's an important issue.

I've often said that Canada is the only western country that has all the critical minerals, whether manganese, lithium, or nickel, required to manufacture batteries. We can use these minerals not only to make batteries, but also semiconductors.

We launched Canada's critical minerals strategy not only with a view to operating a fair number of mines, but also to do the refining. That's the idea behind it: we want to mine and refine critical minerals to keep most of the added value here.

This strategy attracted some major companies. You no doubt remember the GM‑POSCO consortium and its plant in Bécancour. It's got to the point that people in Tokyo are talking to us about Bécancour; that's indicative of the progress we've made. People know that we' re busy building ecosystems. We've also succeeded in attracting Umicore to Kingston.

As I was saying at the outset, one of the facts that plays a decisive role is proximity: the proximity of resources, markets and production chains. That's what enabled us to attract major investments, from companies like LG and Stellantis, which are going to build a plant here, not to mention Volkswagen. The CEO of Volkswagen recently said:

“Canada is [the] logical choice.”

It's not me who said it, but the CEO of Volkswagen in Germany. That says a lot about how far we've come.

That's what I tell people everywhere, on my trips abroad or here at home: we definitely have all the critical minerals needed for the battery ecosystem, and for the 21st‑century economy.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Viviane LaPointe Liberal Sudbury, ON

Thank you.

You've travelled to many countries during the past few months, and you highlighted some of them in your opening statements. These visits seemed to have been received positively by the international community, who seem to be keen to have Canada as a partner.

Can you tell the committee what you're hearing from industries abroad? What is the international community saying about Canada being a destination for their businesses, and how are we enticing these international business partners to Canada?

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

That's a very good question. At a time of much uncertainty in the world, where you have geopolitical challenges, where you have the war in Ukraine and where you have shortages in supply chains, Canada offers unparalleled stability, predictability and the rule of law. I would say that those are in high demand and short supply in the world.

The first thing is that people realize that Canada is a real beacon when it comes to stability and predictability. The other thing I would say is that, when you talk to leaders around the world—and you're right, we hosted the Prime Minister of Japan, we had the President of Korea, we had the German Chancellor and we came from Washington last week—there are three things that are top of mind to leaders around the world today: energy security, food security and supply chain resiliency.

My message to them is that Canada is your supply of choice. We can be your best friend when it comes to that, because Canada can be a partner to our colleagues from Japan and Korea on the Asia-Pacific side. We can be a partner, obviously, to our U.S. friends. Just think about the semi-conductors. As I was saying, it's good that our colleagues down south will be producing more semi-conductors, but I think it's not well known that Canada is, in fact, the place where most of them are packaged and tested. At the same time that they're increasing production, we need to increase packaging and testing. That's my point about the Albany to Bromont corridor; we can do more together.

When I talk to my friends in Washington, I say that the big prize for us is how we can innovate more together, how we can build more together and how we can sell more together to the rest of the world. I think there is this understanding around the world today that what differentiates the Canadian economy from other economies is talent. The first thing that people are looking for is talent, and I'm grateful to say to all the workers that it's thanks to their know-how, excellence and expertise that we can attract these big investments.

The second is obviously natural resources and the strength of our ecosystem, but renewable energy is key. All these big OEMs in the world want to green their supply chain, so Canada comes into play and access to market makes the difference. I'll tell you, when I was in front of the CEO of one of the largest automakers in Japan, he said that it was the best pitch he'd ever heard in his life. I said, “That's not me. This is about Canada.”

They look at us, and they say we have everything they need. Some would say that's how we have been able to attract companies like Volkswagen to have an interest in Canada and Mercedes-Benz. Who would have said? Now they're looking at us.

Trust me that I'll continue to make the case for Canada everywhere I go.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Viviane LaPointe Liberal Sudbury, ON

Thank you.

Do I have time for another question?

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound

You have about 30 seconds left, Ms. Lapointe.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Viviane LaPointe Liberal Sudbury, ON

I just want to say, very quickly, that investments through the strategic infrastructure fund are so important—the net-zero accelerator and the regional development agencies. I know northern Ontario programs, such as FedNor, provide excellent support.

Can you quickly tell the committee about these important ISED programs, and how they are creating jobs?