Industry Committee on April 17th, 2023

[Christa Seaman]

Absolutely. As we begin looking at what other jurisdictions are doing, Canada is actually advanced, compared to the United States, when it comes to the advancement of extended producer responsibility programs. We're hoping to export that learning.

However, as we look at Europe, there are opportunities to learn from and engage with the different companies and members we have that operate in Europe. We do work with Plastics Europe to understand what is taking place in the EU that is helping the EU to increase its recycling rates.

Again, you need to take into account the fact that there are significant differences in population density. That affects the ability to collect the waste plastic at the economies of scale that are needed. It's to actually support the investment in some of these areas. When we look at what Canada can do to help bridge that gap, it's really going back to having the federal government implement the $100-million fund to support innovation and infrastructure that was committed in the ministerial mandates in 2021.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you very much, Ms. Lapointe.

Mr. Lemire, you have the floor.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Chair.

I want to thank Glencore Canada for accepting our invitation to participate in this important study on the scrap industry, which focuses specifically on the recycling of metals, plastics and electronics, from a circular economy perspective.

I was born in Rouyn-Noranda. My grandfather Ernest arrived with his father, Eugène, in 1923. It was a little before the first casting in Noranda. So I care deeply about this city. My children are part of the fifth generation to grow up in this town.

That said, something has been bothering at me lately. Is the threat of closing the smelter, used during negotiations with Quebec City, real?

Also, how would you characterize your level of responsibility for the health of Rouyn-Noranda’s population?

[Alexis Segal]

First of all, our highest priority is the health of our workers and the communities in which our facilities are located. That’s the first thing that must be made clear.

Secondly, in our conversations with the Quebec government about the next remediation certification or environmental permit, we did indeed place heavy emphasis on unattainable targets. It’s not reasonable for a company to invest in a plant and operate it when we are given unattainable targets. We insisted that the targets be technically achievable. The target of 15 nanograms per cubic metre in five years, which we agreed upon, is a target we can now achieve. Indeed, over the past 10 years, through a significant investment of over half a billion dollars, we’ve developed technology in Rouyn-Noranda that will likely make us the smelter with the highest environmental standards on the planet within five years.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you.

One of the fundamental aspects, in my view, is the notion of transparency and availability of data. This notion is important to citizens. In Mount Isa, Australia, your company uses a mobile app to allow citizens to see the levels of sulphur dioxide in the air. A similar model was developed in Quebec City, in the Limoilou district, to track red iron oxide dust levels online.

Do you intend to go down this path in Rouyn-Noranda? What transparency measures would you like to put in place for citizens?

[Marie-Elise Viger]

Yes, we did. During public consultations on the renewal of the ministerial authorization, we submitted our brief, in which we expressed our desire to create a website to publish our environmental data, which we were already publishing on a quarterly basis, and make it available online at all times. That was even added to the ministerial authorization. So we need to set up a website, which will pull all of our data together and make it available to everyone in a usable format.

We are already working on it.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

What can you tell us about the legal station that is to be approved? In my opinion, that’s one of the central elements. If you move a neighbourhood, if you move a parking lot, if that station moves, it’s going to be hard to assess the extent of the improvements over a number of years.

[Marie-Elise Viger]

In fact, the station will not be moved outside the buffer zone. It will be moved about 20 metres in order to truly be at the maximum point of emission impact. In addition to this station, four others will remain where they are. So we’ll be able to monitor the progress of those stations as well.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

In Canada, we have no import limits on arsenic content in concentrates, unlike China, for example, which limits levels to a maximum of 0.5%.

In the interest of protecting public health, would you be willing to limit complex concentrates to that same level until improvements at the Horne smelter are completed?

[Alexis Segal]

That’s an excellent question.

I will ask Ms. Viger to elaborate on the percentage. Indeed, we have been below that number for over 20 years.

[Marie-Elise Viger]

In fact, the strength of our smelter is that it takes a multitude of inputs, such as 100,000 tons of e-waste per year, 700,000 tons of concentrates, over 60% of which comes from Canada, and makes it into one product that goes into the reactor, and therefore into the process chain. For over 20 years, we have been below 0.5% in what we initially put into the reactor.

We are able to meet this limit that is seen elsewhere in the world, but directly in our facilities.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

On a whole other topic, we have often heard in Rouyn-Noranda that the Horne smelter has to import the majority of the e-waste it recycles.

I would like to know how much of the e-waste comes from within Canada and I would like to know the provenance of the rest of the waste.

[Marie-Elise Viger]

About 10% of e-waste comes from within Canada, 75% from the United States and 15% from the rest of the international market. We could handle more waste from Canada. It would just have to be transported to the smelter.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

You have an agreement with Falco Resources for the Horne 5 Project. According to that company, its project would provide 10% of your production with copper concentrate containing low levels of arsenic.

Could this type of project help you decrease your percentage of complex concentrates and perhaps even decrease your emissions?

[Alexis Segal]

If we could obtain copper concentrate, we would obviously be interested. In fact, we already have an agreement with Falco Resources to secure that copper. That said, it doesn’t change the fact that we have to blend our products. As Ms. Viger just said, what we put into the reactor is always a product with levels below the arsenic limit and that we are able to control. That’s why we’re investing more than half a billion dollars to maintain that business model, based on taking in product from over 15 Canadian mines, including gold mines, copper mines and zinc mines, and successfully processing all of that in addition to recyclable resources.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you. That’s all the time I have for now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Mr. Lemire.

Mr. Masse, you have the floor.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Maybe I'll go to Ms. Seaman first.

With regard to our trade agreements, should we include or start to think about having recycling as part of those trade agreements? It's something I've been mulling over.

Without recycling, you can have subsidization of industries with regard to lack of recycling and so forth, with disposal. I wonder about our U.S.-Mexico-Canada trade agreement, or others where we are in a regional area trading back and forth on so many things.

The auto industry has long talked about auto recycling, extended producer liability and so forth. Could you give us some thoughts? If anybody else on the panel outside of the room here wants to also add their comments on this, please think about that, and then I'll go to the room when nobody online wants to respond.

Could you start us, please?

[Christa Seaman]

Absolutely.

First of all, I'd like to, through the chair, thank the MP for the very thoughtful question. When we look at the market and the need for feedstock—recycled plastic—for our recycling facilities, the opportunity to keep the borders open and not restrict flow between Canada, the U.S. and Mexico and including it, whether it be in trade agreements....

Ultimately what we'd like to see as a sector is that this isn't a waste but a resource, so we're looking at resource recovery. Looking at trading post-use plastic as a feedstock or as a resource would be extremely helpful as we look at trying to build the economies of scale that we need to support investment in Canada. We know we have a lot of really valuable innovations taking place from a recycling perspective in Canada, and the ability to draw from the U.S., likely starting close to the Canada-U.S. border, would be beneficial.

We need to keep in mind that one of the challenges we have with the transportation of plastic waste is that it's usually fairly light, so you have high transportation costs and greenhouse gas emissions associated with that. As we look at trying to keep the borders open for trade and keep the flow of this new post-use plastic resource open, any agreements we can put in place would be helpful.

Thank you.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you.

Aside from Mr. Fillmore—not that I have anything against him, but he'll get his time later—would anybody else online like to add?

[Jean Simard]

If I can join in on behalf of the aluminum industry, recycled aluminum is part and parcel of the automotive value chain. It's recycled, it's easy to capture because it's a very well-established market, and it has to flow freely across the border as much as possible to help the industry maintain its decarbonization pathway. I don't think it needs to be enshrined in a free trade agreement, because the marketplace makes things happen all by itself. The only thing we have to be careful about is the extent to which scrap metal could be used as a way in for countries we have problems dealing with in terms of trade, so that's probably the only preoccupation I would have in terms of scrap metal.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Great. Thank you.

If there's no one else online, I'll come to those here in person. With regard to the United States and subsidies for industry, what's the difference within your sector right now on the U.S. side? Is there anything going on right now? I'm curious as to what they're getting.

There's “Buy America” and Buy American, and there are all kinds of other acts, and then there's now the new one Biden put out too. I'm wondering whether your sector is impacted by any of this. Please explain how.

[Alexis Segal]

The IRA, the Inflation Reduction Act in the United States, is really generous and ambitious, but we don't fully know how it will be rolled out.

Investors always pick where it's most profitable to invest. Canada can play that game, but we need to have supports that are in the vicinity of what the Americans propose. It's clear that we can be part of the friendshoring that is coming. I think we should look at how we can leverage this friendshoring to increase Canada's attractiveness for major investment in the mining, smelting and refining of critical metals.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

I think one of the greatest mythological creatures in North America is the free market economy. We don't see it in the United States at all. I guess we'll find out a little bit more, because I haven't seen it either.

I'll give you a practical example. In the auto sector where I come from, they're going to require some of the contracts to have American content, reshoring some of our contracts. It's not even just companies, but contracts are going to get reshored because if they want to get some of this money, they have to have that content.

In the tool-and-die mould-making sector, for example, we've already seen some companies having to relocate won contracts to other companies, because they have the percentage there when they go back and ship it. This is going to get out of control, and it's going to get more complicated.

Then having those companies even break that information down and be compliant on a regular basis is something that's really just concerning.

Please go ahead.

[Alexis Segal]

It's difficult to comment on this because Glencore is a worldwide company. By principle, we'll promote free trade. That's part of our DNA, so it's really difficult to comment more than that.