Industry Committee on April 17th, 2023

[Jean Simard]

I would say the most strategic challenge, right now, is the sorting of aluminum coming from streams such as automotive or consumer packaging.

You either avoid using multiple materials, including aluminum, when designing packages—in order to enable tracking the aluminum and bringing it out of the stream—or have the challenge of sorting the various materials downstream and being able to disassemble the materials from one another. A good example is the Tetra Pak container, which has layers of different materials. It's a very complex type of container to deal with when you want to recycle the materials optimally.

It can be in the design, which is smart to do. You can do it upstream. You address the issue when you design the container, package or object. If you don't do that, you have to accept the challenge of dealing with it downstream at the end, when it's very complex. It has been used, so there are contamination problems and stuff like that. You have to choose your challenge.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Mr. Gaheer. That concludes our second round.

Colleagues, we have until 5:40—that's six more minutes—so we're not going to start the third round. I will simply open the floor should any members have more questions.

I recognize Mr. Perkins, then Mr. Lemire.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you.

Ms. Kelleher, I have a quick question. I believe you're the appropriate person to ask. I understand that in the production of lithium batteries for e-vehicles, the production of the cathode produces about 80% waste in tailings, which goes into landfills.

Can you confirm whether that's the case?

[Maria Kelleher]

Thank you for the question.

Unfortunately, I can't answer that question, because I'm not a mining person. You would need to direct that to someone involved on the lithium mining side or the cathode material side. I'm more on the recycling side.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Do any of the other panellists have any knowledge in that area?

[Peter Fuchs]

No. Unfortunately, we're not the technicians here, but we can certainly make someone available for you.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you.

Ms. Seaman, in my past life, I was in retail and involved in the issue of plastic bags. One thing I learned is that there's actually no such thing as a biodegradable bag, even though it's marketed that way. Really, it's just a chemical additive that breaks the bag up into small pieces, but the plastic still has the same shelf life.

Is that correct?

[Christa Seaman]

There are multiple and confusing definitions. You have biodegradable, you have compostable and you have oxo-degradable. The one that you were describing is really oxo-degradable: An additive goes in and creates a kind of stained glass. The additive is the lead in the stained glass, and as it decomposes, you do get the microplastics. However, there are technologies out there, and there are plastics out there that are fully compostable in either a home or an industrial recycling setting.

I think that was early days, but with technology today, my response is no, that is no longer truly the situation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

You can ask one last question.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

This is for the the Glencore witnesses. I'm not sure who would be the right person to answer this question.

You're acquiring or buying plastics that then go through a recycling process. Is that part of the process? If it is, in your dealings with those who stream the recycling, do they share with you, at least in Canada, how much of the plastic that goes into that stream is actually garbage, such as the plastic clamshells that cookies and stuff like that often come in when we buy things in retail?

[Marie-Elise Viger]

We do not purchase plastic. We purchase electronics. For instance, some plastic is stuck to the metal in circuit boards, so we receive that type of plastic in the process.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you very much, Mr. Perkins.

Mr. Lemire, you have the floor.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I have some more questions for the representatives from Glencore Canada.

Some of your inputs are waste materials purchased from other companies, here and around the world. These waste materials may be considered hazardous, including sludge containing concentrations of elements such as lead.

What does Canada get out of this? How important is this to the environment across the country? What waste materials remain in Rouyn-Noranda afterwards?

[Alexis Segal]

I will answer part of the question and let Ms. Viger answer the one about residual materials.

In the case of anode sludge, for example, the price of a barrel is the same as that of a Ferrari. So it's not waste, it's a valuable product. In fact, Canada recovers silver, gold, platinum, palladium, tellurium and bismuth. These are the very elements and metals that we need. In fact, they are very valuable and we take great care of them.

That said, when they are processed, there are sometimes residues. Ms. Viger could tell you about that now.

[Marie-Elise Viger]

Absolutely. In the residues left by the process, there is slag.

It is recycled directly on site, in the concentrator. Copper and precious metal remains are recovered. The part that is not useful is made up of mining residues such as those found in mines. These residues are sent to a tailings facility.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I would like to address, from a circular economy perspective, the production of batteries for electric vehicles, which requires arsenic and sulfuric acid. These are, of course, components that you produce.

Since these materials are important in the process, I would like to know how this could help to integrate the Horne Foundry into the industry.

[Alexis Segal]

It is not widely known, but the Sudbury smelter, the CEZinc refinery in Salaberry-de-Valleyfield and the Horne smelter are the largest producers of sulfuric acid in Canada.

Sulfuric acid is very useful in everyday life, whether it's for pollution control, fertilizers, pharmaceuticals, the food industry or to make spodumene, or lithium hydroxide. We are also in this market and we sell sulfuric acid to lithium companies that need sulfuric acid to advance the process.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you.

I'm coming to the end of my remarks, but in closing, I'd like to know if, in the event that the committee would like to go onsite and visit large recycling facilities, you would be willing to have us come by and give us a more detailed presentation of the projects related to investments, including the PHENIX project.

In my younger days, I was a tour guide at the Horne Foundry, and I could, if you like, play the role of host.

In any case, I think it could be a very enlightening experience for our committee.

[Alexis Segal]

I'm sure you could. I'm not sure we're going to have you as a guide, but we're willing to entertain people who want to learn about the crucial role the Horne Foundry plays in recycling.

The invitation also applies to Sudbury, which does roughly the same things we do.

I would also point out that nickel and copper produced in Canada have the lowest carbon footprint in the world. We should be proud of that.

We invite you to come and see these gems of the industry, whose CO₂ emissions per ton are well below the world average. We are simply the best in the world.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Mr. Lemire.

We heard your proposal. We'll follow up on that when the time is right.

I would like to thank all of the witnesses for their participation in this committee meeting today.

Again, my apologies for the late start to the meeting.

The meeting is adjourned.