Evidence of meeting #8 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was battery.
A recording is available from Parliament.
2:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound
Thank you, Mr. Fast.
We'll now go to Mr. Lemire for a couple of minutes.
Mr. Lemire, I took you by surprise.
2:50 p.m.
Bloc
Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I thought a Liberal member would speak before me.
Dr. Zaghib, I would like to take advantage of your presence and expertise.
Can you talk a little bit more about the dynamics between Ottawa and the provinces? What is the federal-provincial relationship, whether it's Quebec or Ontario, right now? What are you afraid of?
Is the context favourable for the government to act now?
Can you give us the parameters of the opportunity that is being presented to us in terms of strategic critical minerals?
2:50 p.m.
Professor, Concordia University and Professor of Practice, McGill University, As an Individual
In my opinion, we should not be afraid. Personally, I am very optimistic. Universities in Ontario and Quebec are working hard to develop an initiative on a common research and development platform.
I will give an example. Nickel is found in Quebec and Ontario. There is an opportunity for collaboration.
I think we should do more to have a secure and stable supply chain in Canada. In my opinion, we should join hands to create a win-win situation for everyone. In this way, we will be able to position ourselves together on the Canadian market and on the international market, particularly in the United States and Europe.
2:50 p.m.
Bloc
Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
There is, however, a challenge in terms of processing the resources to create the famous cells.
Do you believe that Quebec is ready to engage in this processing activity?
Do we have all the tools to do this and to supply the market for electric vehicles in particular, but also that for heavy vehicles, among others?
2:55 p.m.
Professor, Concordia University and Professor of Practice, McGill University, As an Individual
To make the battery cells, you have to go through the process of making the anode and cathode from the processed minerals. This all makes sense. You should create an ecosystem to avoid transporting the minerals, which would reduce CO2 emissions. The cells can be made in Quebec. Ontario can make the modules and battery packs.
Let's not forget that Quebec has Hydro-Québec and a lot of electrical energy. With this inexpensive green energy, Quebec could manufacture the cells and ship them to Ontario for the module and battery pack assembly.
I believe that this complementarity would be the best solution for both provinces.
2:55 p.m.
Bloc
Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
I have one last question about full authority in Quebec for environmental standards.
Do you think there might be some friction in the application of Canadian standards and Quebec standards?
Who should have primary jurisdiction in this area between the federal and provincial governments?
February 11th, 2022 / 2:55 p.m.
Professor, Concordia University and Professor of Practice, McGill University, As an Individual
I would like the province to have priority. This is important, because the traceability of minerals is done mostly at the provincial level.
I think the federal government can be there and work with the provinces. So I would give priority to provincial standards.
2:55 p.m.
Bloc
Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
Thank you very much, Dr. Zaghib.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound
We have one last round of questions.
Mr. Fillmore, you have the floor for a few minutes.
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
Andy Fillmore Liberal Halifax, NS
We may have heard pieces of the answer to this question throughout the meeting, but I would like to sweep them all together into one place.
We've heard a number of witnesses talk about how things aren't moving quickly enough in terms of extraction in Canada. I know that Minister Champagne, Mr. Lemire and I are very eager to get products coming out of the ground in Nemaska, for example, but also across the country, and there are other possibilities that have been mentioned. I think it would be very helpful to identify in very clear terms for the committee what the roadblocks are that keep us from moving more quickly.
Perhaps I could start with Monsieur Fortier or anyone else who has an opinion on that, but really it's open to anyone who'd like to jump in. What are the roadblocks, and what can we do differently?
2:55 p.m.
President, Accelerate: Canada's ZEV Supply Chain Alliance
I'll start, and I'll be very brief because I'd like to hear others.
We've heard some of the roadblocks in terms of it taking a long time from developing a deposit to getting it out of the ground. That's a huge roadblock. There are regulatory challenges there. We know that, but there are also capital challenges, so we need investment, both from government and foreign direct investment. We need to attract private investment. We need to double down on processing. We need project demonstrations, and we need to see this as a bigger opportunity than just getting stuff out of the ground and shipping it overseas. That's a roadblock, and it's also kind of a cultural one, too.
2:55 p.m.
Director, Policy and Programs, Prospectors and Developers Association of Canada
Yes, I'd certainly like to pick up on that to take it further.
Social awareness, the underlying evidence we've been talking about, trying to generate that so we understand where these steps need to be taken.... We talk about timelines for development, and that's regulatory and technical, but there are also social aspects we need to be aware of. For new mines to be developed and for new processing facilities to be built, people have to understand where these things are going to occur, and we need to ensure there's a really firm understanding of what the benefits are going to be.
2:55 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Electric Mobility Canada
I'll say two things. First, as a former environment minister, I think it's very important that we work in a thorough way regarding the environmental impact of mines, and that we make sure that this process goes faster than it's going right now.
We haven't talked much about this, but one very important key part of the future of electric mobility is going to be recycling—what we're calling the second mining of electric vehicles—because, unlike oil, these critical minerals are recyclable indefinitely, so we have to make sure we develop an industry for recycling those battery components so that we can reuse them a second, third and fourth time.
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
Andy Fillmore Liberal Halifax, NS
Following up on that, are there implications in standards for manufacturers that would ensure that the ability to extract the components into their fundamental pieces is as easy and accessible as possible? Is there anything we should be focusing on there?
2:55 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Electric Mobility Canada
Absolutely.
Presently, the Government of Quebec is looking into this. The European Union is looking into this right now to come up with advanced regulations and battery passports, so that we know where the batteries go during their life cycle. We can then recycle them. There's a responsibility on the producer of this battery, called extended producer responsibility.
Yes, we have to look into this. Right now in Quebec, the discussion is ongoing, but people from NRCan are looking into it so that we can come up with a possible federal regulation on the best ways to incentivize battery regulation and battery recycling in a responsible way that will promote innovation.
3 p.m.
Liberal
3 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound
I'm afraid not, Mr. Fillmore, but that was a good try.
Thank you to all of our witnesses for being here today. It's been a great conversation to inform the work of the committee going forward, so many thanks to all of you for taking the time this afternoon.
I wish all members and all witnesses, our analysts, the clerk and the interpreters a very good weekend.
This meeting is adjourned.