Industry Committee on June 21st, 2023

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Are you telling me—through you, Mr. Chair—the regulatory approach that was voted against in some of the amendments we've put forward hasn't worked to the benefit of Canada in the interpretation by the minister in conducting national security reviews and/or communicating that information to the public and, therefore, we need to improve this legislation by enshrining in law what the regulation had done previously?

[Mark Schaan]

My comment was that there may exist in some quarters some ambiguity about the current process. This is simply a clarification of existing practice.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Mr. Vis.

If there are no more questions and comments on LIB-3, I'll take a few minutes to discuss with the legislative clerks the point of order brought forth by Mr. Perkins.

I will very briefly suspend.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Could I reference CPC-3, CPC-7, NDP-2 and NDP-4, which I believe were ruled out of order for the same reason?

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

We'll suspend briefly and come back in about two to three minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

We can resume.

To Mr. Perkins' point of order, after consulting with the legislative clerks, if you look at, for instance, clauses 15 and 16 of the bill, the disposition of the law at section 25.4 is already amended. It's already open. As soon as this clause of the original act is modified by the bill, then it opens it up.

That's why the ruling I've made on the previous clauses does not apply to this one: Bill C-34 already opens section 25.4 to amendments, and section 36 as well.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

This opens subsection (4.1), a different.... I'm not sure.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

If you look at clauses 15 and 16 of the bill, they open up amendments to section 25.4, if I'm reading it correctly, with the help of the legislative clerk.

I've ruled on your point of order, Mr. Perkins, so it's not up for debate at this point. I appreciate your bringing it up, because we need to be consistent in the rulings. Thank you for that.

On that note, are there any more comments on amendment LIB-3 proposed by Madam Lapointe?

If there are none, I would call it to a vote.

(Amendment agreed to: yeas 10; nays 0—See Minutes of Proceedings)

If there are no more amendments to clause 19, shall clause 19 carry as amended?

Are there any more amendments?

I'm sorry, Madam Lapointe. I didn't see your hand.

Madam Lapointe, if I'm not mistaken, it's LIB-4 that you want to move.

This is a new clause that would follow clause 19.

(Clause 19 as amended agreed to)

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Now we will go to Madam Lapointe on LIB-4, I believe.

[Viviane LaPointe, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

This amendment would improve transparency and accountability by ensuring that the annual report, which is required to be published, would include details on the use of the minster's duties and powers for national security review. This would include, for example, the new powers on interim conditions and accepting binding undertakings to mitigate national security risk.

The proposed amendment to Bill C-34 would be that Bill C-34 be amended by adding, after line 15 on page 13, the following new clause:

19.1 Section 38.1 of the Act is renumbered as subsection 38.1(1) and is amended by adding the following:

(2) The report shall include information on the exercise of ministerial duties and powers under Part IV.1.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you very much, Ms. Lapointe.

Are there any questions or comments?

Mr. Perkins, you have the floor.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

This is more of a point of order at this stage than content.

As I read it, adding a new section to section 38, again, is a parent rule issue. Because Bill C-42 does not amend section 38.1, adding a new section is, in my view, and that of some of the legal advice we got from the Library of Parliament, out of order because of the parent rule.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Mr. Perkins. In response to your point of order, I will say the following. Since part IV is open, after the bill has been analyzed by the team of legislative clerks, LIB‑4 is deemed in order by the Chair, for the same reasons as those I have just mentioned in connection with LIB‑3.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Can I ask what section the legislative clerk says is open that allows this amendment?

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Just one moment, Mr. Perkins.

After verification, part IV.1 of the Investment Canada Act includes sections 25.1 to 25.6, which are open in the bill that was tabled and voted on at second reading. This is why LIB‑4 is in order.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

You're saying part IV.1, but this is amending.... Where am I missing it, because this is amending section 38, isn't it? I'm just trying to understand.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

At this point, Mr. Perkins, I'll have to say I've ruled on this point of order that you brought. If you need some clarification with the legislative clerks, I suggest you take it off-line, because the rulings of the chair are not up for debate. In this case, I have ruled on that point.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I'd like to challenge the chair on that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Fair enough, Mr. Perkins. You've helped me learn the procedural rules of this committee as it is our last meeting. I appreciate that.

My ruling on this point of order has been challenged by Mr. Perkins. Shall my decision be sustained?

(Ruling of the chair sustained: yeas 7; nays 4)

We are still on LIB-4. Are there any more questions or comments on LIB-4?

Mr. Vis.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

I'll ask the officials to clarify.

In a hypothetical situation, the minister has made a ruling on a foreign state-owned enterprise that was subject to a national security review. Under this amendment, he's going to publish an annual report on the decisions he has made and the powers he has exercised therewith, with respect to those decisions.

Is that correct?

[Mark Schaan]

That is correct.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Mr. Vis.

Are there any more comments on the floor? Let's proceed to a vote.

(Amendment agreed to: yeas 7; nays 4)

(On clause 20)

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

This brings us to clause 20 of the bill.

Mr. Perkins, you have the floor.